Landis grinding wheel for rolls and 1144 steel parts
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cherryville, NC
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default Landis grinding wheel for rolls and 1144 steel parts

    My boss bought a used landis grinder and we don't know what wheel to use on it .
    every one he bought just burns parts and he considers it my fault.
    The machine is a 14x96 and uses a 30"wheel.
    can some one help.
    thanks

  2. Likes cash liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3396
    Likes (Received)
    3596

    Default

    Not much to go on..it should grind easy..how are you holding it.. how long the part..wheel properly dressed..coolant turned on..how hard the part..on dead or live centers..machine set level and solid..spindle grinds a stub part better..it is raining out side..runs poorer after lunch break..

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,500
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1766
    Likes (Received)
    5221

    Default

    How are you dressing the wheel? Fast or slow? New diamond or old? Single or cluster? Do you remember what the hardness and grit of the wheels you've tried are?

    When the wheel is still, run your finger over it - does it feel rough or smooth? Does it look shiny or does it seem unreflective?

    What's your coolant situation? Good, hard flow with a nozzle properly aimed? Filtered? Mixture correct? Or no coolant?

    Some pics would help, even video with good sound.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    2,450
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    263
    Likes (Received)
    656

    Default

    I'v found that a pretty good general purpose wheel is a Norton 32A46K5VBE. I use that on soft mild steel, carburized 62 Rc etc, and it performs pretty well both plunge and cylindrical grinding. This is a 20" wheel, so its similar to what you will use. It would be helpful to know what you are using now. Milland's ? are spot on.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Raymond , CA
    Posts
    260
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    176

    Default

    The Landis grinder may have a low speed (new wheel) and a high speed (worn wheel) setup on the pulleys. If the wheel speed is too fast the wheel will act harder and burn the work. Make sure that the motor pulley is using the smaller diameter grooves for the new wheel.

    The work speed or feed rates may be too low. Faster rates make the wheel act softer.

    Do not tarry too long at the end of the work piece. The spark out process will dull the abrasive grains and require that the wheel be dressed again.

    Reduce the wheel width with a diamond dress The smaller the wheel contact area the higher the forces will be on the abrasive grains. This will cause the dull grains to be torn off the wheel.

    Avoid using viscous coolants. That means coolants with too high a oil concentration. It causes the wheel to skid off the work piece. There is a optimum viscosity for each grit size.

    Follow Milland's instructions for wheel dressing.

    Find a boss who is willing to buy the correct grinding wheel. A porous 46 grit aluminum oxide grade K or L is about right. Dan's grinding wheel will work without burning provided everything in the above list is followed.

    If you look at the grinding wheel manufacturer's websites you will see that there is a trend in abrasive size recommendations depending on the wheel diameter and the wheel width. The larger the diameter of the wheel the courser the grit becomes for the same surface finish. There may be a 36 grit wheel available in the 30" diameter size.

    The recommended wheel grit drops in size as the wheel becomes narrower. You need a minimum number of grains in contact with the work or the wheel will rapidly erode.

    The recommended hardness specification varies a bit depending on the type of aluminum oxide abrasive used
    There are equivalence charts available comparing Radiac, Norton and other manufacturer's wheels that will match wheel performance.

  7. Likes Milland, Matt_Maguire, cash liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    29,752
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Norton 32A46K5VBE
    There you go - this shaft certainly not hardened, but not dead soft. I did use a great sharp diamond which was not cheap. Coolant a nice solid stream with a nozzle spreading it across face of wheel

    Machine is an antique.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails p1000351sm.jpg  

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,069
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1099
    Likes (Received)
    927

    Default

    You need to first look at what wheel speed you are running. On the larger machines you could swap out the pulleys to change the wheel speed. We have a Landis with a 30" wheel. Our machine has a VFD for the spindle Motor and I am thinking the operators like around 600 RPM.

    We have been using a 60 grit H wheel for many years. We play around with the grain recently, trying some Norton Ceramic wheels which have been positive. The problem with these size wheels is nobody stocks them. it takes a long time to get them.

    We have 3" wide and 4-1/2" wide, the guys like the wider wheels.

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cherryville, NC
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    Thanks for all the help I have some things to try.
    The machine came with a worn out reddish brown wheel that all the numbers were worn off of and it ran pretty good.
    when the machine came last year I could run a 2 of 3 foot long roll taking off .002 to .003 per pass
    We don't use it much and it sits a lot
    I ground 6 shafts on it that were 65" long and it ran well but I had to take it easy or it would burn.
    The two new wheels he bought run worse, the one I tried today was from radiac (60-k8-v1) it didn't glaze over but did burn.
    What I think is a major issue but my boss doesn't is that the coolant is old and dirty and oil soaked.I skim it with rags but I want to change it
    I told him it runs worse than when we got it and that is the only thing different.
    I think the coolant is a major factor
    do ya'll agree

  11. Likes cash liked this post
  12. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    7,779
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    390
    Likes (Received)
    6471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Wells View Post
    ...
    do ya'll agree
    No........

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,075
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9
    Likes (Received)
    626

    Default

    I have a Landis 16x72 type C 1943 .....and I always steered clear of any white wheels.....only the gray wheels......not very technical for sure.....and as mentioned,speed up the work rotation.......there is a belt change in the workhead,yours might be on slow pulleys.....grinding soft steel is a pita too,harder the better.............speeding up the traverse makes the wheel self dress,too slow traverse is common fault with lathe operators,set the tarry so the work diameter doesnt reduce at the ends.

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Raymond , CA
    Posts
    260
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Wells View Post
    The two new wheels he bought run worse, the one I tried today was from radiac (60-k8-v1) it didn't glaze over but did burn.

    I think the coolant is a major factor
    do ya'll agree
    My obsolete 1970's Landis handbook suggests using the 60 grit wheels for finishing rather than heavy stock removal on low hardness steel shafts. The 60 grit wheel in a less durable aluminum oxide is recommended when working with tool steels.

    In the equivalence chart in the handbook it does not look like the manufacturers could agree on what the numbers mean. They are using different recipes for the aluminum oxide abrasive. So the numbers quoted here for Norton wheels may not be applicable to Radiac wheels.

    Could you give the Radiac distributor a phone call and ask what they recommend for your work? They will need to know the surface hardness, how much material is to be removed, and the required surface finish.

    The brown or gray-blue aluminum oxide wheels have titanium dioxide added to the aluminum oxide to make the abrasive more durable and resistant to shock. The white wheels have abrasive grains that are less durable but remain sharp while grinding.

    The coolant serves as a lubricant and as a heat transfer fluid. There is a optimum viscosity for a given abrasive grain size and wheel speed. If it is too viscous the wheel skids. If it is too thin the coolant no longer lubricates.
    When the mix is selected carefully there is reduced horsepower required for grinding and reduced heat in the part. Somewhere on the Benz oil website there is a viscosity selection chart and a detailed explanation. I could not find it a few minutes ago but it is there somewhere. If you see oil floating in the coolant tank it may mean that the water-oil emulsion has separated. Your coolant at that point is no longer a lubricant.

    The sludge in the coolant tank may also be blocking the plumbing and reducing the flow to the wheel nozzle.

  15. Likes michiganbuck, cash liked this post
  16. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    2,450
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    263
    Likes (Received)
    656

    Default

    Wow!! .002 to .003 per pass seems like a lot to me. I know my wheel would burn at that rate unless my traverse was REALLY slow.

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,075
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9
    Likes (Received)
    626

    Default

    Me too...excessive x10 for my machine...I would worry about the bearings with that much load,and the wheel would likely load up with swarf.....Another sign of using the grinder like a lathe,which you do not do.

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3396
    Likes (Received)
    3596

    Default

    redish wheel may be what I used to call a clay wheel , many are 150 grit or so and would tend to burn a part if that fine..Great for super finishing at .0002 or so, and spark-out there..
    Agree 46 to 60 good for decent finish. Some/many rolls looking for mirror finish, tough to get that with 46-60 gt

    Had a job the needed straight water for the last tweak to get the finish needed..but that has nothing to do with burning.

    Could roll the dressed grit between fingers and feel how fine.
    46gt= about .015
    60 about .007
    100 about .005

    QT Op:[I told him it runs worse than when we got it and that is the only thing different.] But you say you bought two new wheels so not a coolant hard in the wheel.
    *if a machine is shut down wheel-wet and the coolant stiffened up, so now the wheel runs a little out of balance..One of my customers bought a surface grinder at auction and told me the spindle is shot...I found the wheel was coolant logged and with a new wheel ran smooth as silk..yes he was ready to scrap the machine before I found the shot wheel. Dressing most often does not correct such a wheel.

    Had a machine that the tail bottom was a little rounded from wear and with a solid heacy two hand push I could get some indicator movement..that machine tended to burn on some material..and got better after I fixed the tail.
    How is the wheel surface speed..likely needs 4500 or so.
    Has the correct spindle oil?
    Does the spark-out end up smooth grinding a stub part?


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •