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Lifting a Cincinnati #2 cutter grinder

Spud

Diamond
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Location
Brookfield, Wisconsin
The manual says pass 1" bar stock through the holes in the base, then lift with slings/rope/strap wrapped around the bar.

Machine is between 2000lbs - 2250bs per the manual
Operator's Instruction Book, Cincinnati No. 2 Cutter and Tool Grinder : The Cincinnati Milling Machine Company : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive



Wondering if I can just forgo the steel bar and pass lifting slings through the holes ?
What kind of steel bar do they have in mind? 1018 cold rolled?

Will be getting a tow-truck to lift the machine. Currently sitting in pickup.

Lifting-bars.png
 
Passing an adequate lifting sling through holes intended for 1" bar may be challenging. If there is a sharp edge at the edge of the holes it may cut the lifting sling. You can do whatever you want, were it me I would use the bars per the instructions from the manufacturer.

CarlBoyd
 
Don't try to put slings or ropes through the lifting holes. If you're using chain, it will chew up the sides of the machine. If you are using nylon or manilla, the edges of the holes will cut the slings or ropes. Get the recommended bars and put them through the holes.

Use lifting straps, slings, or rope rated for the (rather light) load. That means almost anything should work. But don't use auto-store tow straps or Harbor Freight tie-downs. Use something rated for the load, with a permanently affixed rating tag. Rated nylon slings are cheap and widely available.
 
That will be a good trick to pass a stiff 2" strap through a 1" hole.

What's the big deal about buying 8' of 1" 1018 and cutting it in two?
 
I did not tell you this but black pipe will work. :nutter:. I like to cap the ends so the sling can not come off when stuff goes wrong or I secondary strap the sling in tight with tie downs.
Are you sure you want or need to sling it?
This is always about the worse way to move things. Recommenced in manuals for big shops with overhead cranes.
They make and rent these things called fork lifts and the machine is so happy on a low buck pallet jack.
Yes, I know sometimes the cheapest is a tow truck boom and you have to sling.
Bob
 
That will be a good trick to pass a stiff 2" strap through a 1" hole.

What's the big deal about buying 8' of 1" 1018 and cutting it in two?

I would be buying 1 piece that is about 8-9 feet long and have the retailer cut it in half.
I think I am not going with the lifting sling only method. Will use bar.

I did not tell you this but black pipe will work. :nutter:. I like to cap the ends so the sling can not come off when stuff goes wrong or I secondary strap the sling in tight with tie downs.
Are you sure you want or need to sling it?
This is always about the worse way to move things. Recommenced in manuals for big shops with overhead cranes.
They make and rent these things called fork lifts and the machine is so happy on a low buck pallet jack.
Yes, I know sometimes the cheapest is a tow truck boom and you have to sling.
Bob

I am concerned about the lifting slings slipping off the bar. Was thinking of running a ratchet strap horizontally all the way around the machine, so that it covers the lifting slings on both sides. Is there a better way of preventing the slings from sliding off?

I don't have access to an operating lathe, so can't threat the ends to receive a nut . Lack of access to appropriate tools also means I can't thread a hole into a spacer , slip space over the bar's ends then secure space in place with an allen-head screw or bolt.

But pipe is hollow, so won't it bend when lifting 2200lbs ?
Don't have use of forklift, only tow-truck with boom.


Don't try to put slings or ropes through the lifting holes. If you're using chain, it will chew up the sides of the machine. If you are using nylon or manilla, the edges of the holes will cut the slings or ropes. Get the recommended bars and put them through the holes.

Use lifting straps, slings, or rope rated for the (rather light) load. That means almost anything should work. But don't use auto-store tow straps or Harbor Freight tie-downs. Use something rated for the load, with a permanently affixed rating tag. Rated nylon slings are cheap and widely available.
The edges of the hole are quite smooth and rounded. Problem is getting the lifting sling into both holes on both sides. Will be impossible on the side that is up against the back of the pickup bed.
 
I think I used thick wall pipe and did not have a problem.

Remember to remove the table before transporting it (if it has the ball bearing ways), or tighten it down tight with a ratchet strap.

Vince
 
But pipe is hollow, so won't it bend when lifting 2200lbs ?

Spud, your pipe doesn't have to hold 2200 lbs. you have 2 pipes so each one will hold 1100 lbs. You will be slinging off both ends so each leg of the sling will be holding 550 lbs. (Less than the weight of two fat Toolmakers:D)

What I do when I have to sling something like that is get 50 feet of 3/8 manila rope. The lifting strength is 350 lbs per line. Start out by tying a half hitch on one end and hang this on the lifting hook, then take the line and thread it through the two front holes then over the hook again through the back two holes over the hook again. Do this until you run out of rope or the holes you are putting it through get full. With three passes you can safely lift your 2200 lbs.
 
If a standard length of pipe does not fit Home Depot will thread any length for you.
Then you just screw on caps or elbows.
3/4 fits though a 1.050 hole. It's not that much weight and the sling is next to the casting.
If using solid bars or any other with no ends I strap around the machine with ratchet straps holding the sling against the machine as a safety.
You can also sling it underneath but this is tippy, more complicated to do and needs spreaders.
Pay attention to blocking the table advice.
I know it all seems scary. Above all stay the height of the machine away during lifting and never try to "hand save" a lift gone bad.
Bob
 
Spud, your pipe doesn't have to hold 2200 lbs. you have 2 pipes so each one will hold 1100 lbs. You will be slinging off both ends so each leg of the sling will be holding 550 lbs. (Less than the weight of two fat Toolmakers:D)

What I do when I have to sling something like that is get 50 feet of 3/8 manila rope. The lifting strength is 350 lbs per line. Start out by tying a half hitch on one end and hang this on the lifting hook, then take the line and thread it through the two front holes then over the hook again through the back two holes over the hook again. Do this until you run out of rope or the holes you are putting it through get full. With three passes you can safely lift your 2200 lbs.

The online manual says each sling should be rated for 3000lbs. Yeah I am sure they are being on the safe side , so thought I should be too. Machine is between 2200-2500lbs. Pipe is definitely an attractive solution as I can get it thread at the big box store, and it is cheaper. So the standard black pipe will hold 1000-1500lbs each? Cause one side is going to be heavier .

Just realized I have the motorized workhead as opposed to the standard one shown in the online manual. The online manual says to move the workhead all the way to the back, which I presume is to offset the weight in the front.


Does anyone know if the #2 cutter grinder uses the same collets as a Cincinnati Monoset?

Online manual says the #2 uses modified No. 12 Brown & Sharpe or 5 Morse taper .
It also says modified No.12 B&S to No.4 B&S .

Collets.png


Collets-2.png


Collets-3.png


Will Monoset collets work with a #2 cutter grinder?
 
If a standard length of pipe does not fit Home Depot will thread any length for you.
Then you just screw on caps or elbows.
3/4 fits though a 1.050 hole. It's not that much weight and the sling is next to the casting.
If using solid bars or any other with no ends I strap around the machine with ratchet straps holding the sling against the machine as a safety.
You can also sling it underneath but this is tippy, more complicated to do and needs spreaders.
Pay attention to blocking the table advice.
I know it all seems scary. Above all stay the height of the machine away during lifting and never try to "hand save" a lift gone bad.
Bob

Can you explain the "blocking the table" ?
 
Will Monoset collets work with a #2 cutter grinder?
No. None of the standard workheads for the #2 take Monoset collets. The #2 itself doesn't take any collets, but workhead attachments often do. The main workhead I use is NMTB50 taper on one end (not exactly what I would call a collet, but ...) and 5C on the other end. NMTB50 and MT5 is also common. (Come to think of it, my workhead may have an adapter in the small end which I never remove.)

BTW, that long list of collets is only relevant if you intend to sharpen tapered shank cutters. You probably don't have any, other than possibly MT shank drills. You're going to deal mostly with straight shank cutters, or arbor-style cutters, or cutters held between centers. For the 2nd and 3rd categories, collets are irrelevant, and for the 1st category, all you need is an adapter that will take whatever collet system you already have and use in your shop. I.e., if you use TG-style toolholding collets, it's simple lathe work to make a NMTB50-to-TG adapter.

BTW, there's absolutely no reason not to use KO Lee or other brand workheads on the Cincinatti #2.

So, what workhead attachments do you actually have? From that, we can probably tell you what collets you need.
 
Can you explain the "blocking the table" ?
Prevent the table from moving left or right under its own weight if the grinder is tilted during the lift.

If you are moving the grinder any distance, you should do more than that. You need to keep the table from bouncing up and down, because when it comes done, it will brinnell dents into its ways with its own ball bearings. Either pull the table and bearings+carriers altogether, or temporarily replace the bearings+carriers with 5/8" wood dowels, or load/strap the table so it cannot bounce on the worst potholes and the crappiest truck suspension. When I got my #2, the shipper lowered and extended the head into heavy contact with the table with a wood block as a buffer, then locked the column and the head joints.
 
In order to prevent a sling or a chain to slide off the ends of a pipe, it is not necessary to thread the ends and screw something on them: just drill a hole through the pipe/rod and insert a pin or a bolt sticking out considerably at both ends of the hole.

Paolo
 
Prevent the table from moving left or right under its own weight if the grinder is tilted during the lift.

If you are moving the grinder any distance, you should do more than that. You need to keep the table from bouncing up and down, because when it comes done, it will brinnell dents into its ways with its own ball bearings. Either pull the table and bearings+carriers altogether, or temporarily replace the bearings+carriers with 5/8" wood dowels, or load/strap the table so it cannot bounce on the worst potholes and the crappiest truck suspension. When I got my #2, the shipper lowered and extended the head into heavy contact with the table with a wood block as a buffer, then locked the column and the head joints.

The manual says to move the workhead all the way back, i.e. in the opposite direction of the sliding table. I presume this is to balance out the weight of the table?
 
Presumably. My #2 doesn't have a factory head on it. It was rebuilt by Denver in the 1980's (IIRC) and has a motorized import head that's quite unlike the factory head. So "extended the head" isn't even possible with the original motor-in-the-base-belt-driven version of the factory head.

Actually, if you look at the base, it's sort of T-shaped with the wide part in front. So there's a lot more weight than the table in the front.

Added in edit: I didn't read your question clearly enough. The workhead (and tailstock and anything else that mounts to the table) should be removed from the machine before moving it. The wheelhead is probably what the manual says should be moved to the rear.
 
I (possibly foolishly) used 3/4 black pipe for lifting and went without incident. I was also informed to remove the table and the balls which I did. You have to unscrew the square metal (blocker/guards at one end and then wheel the table down and it will beable to be lifted at some point. It was a two man job but in doing so, took the fear of banging uo the table during transport.
Wheel Mount Hub Collet Extension & Nut Cincinnati No. 2 Tool & Cutter Grinder RH | eBay
 
Presumably. My #2 doesn't have a factory head on it. It was rebuilt by Denver in the 1980's (IIRC) and has a motorized import head that's quite unlike the factory head. So "extended the head" isn't even possible with the original motor-in-the-base-belt-driven version of the factory head.

Actually, if you look at the base, it's sort of T-shaped with the wide part in front. So there's a lot more weight than the table in the front.

Added in edit: I didn't read your question clearly enough. The workhead (and tailstock and anything else that mounts to the table) should be removed from the machine before moving it. The wheelhead is probably what the manual says should be moved to the rear.

Having checked the machine closely last night, I was wrong about the motorised wheelhead moving back. It is indeed fixed in its position and can only move up and down.
 
I have the same#2 model,and there is a very heavy saddle unbalancing the front part.There isnt a great deal of weight in these machines,and no top heavy -ness to deal with.Some machines there is a lot of lopsided weight on thru bars,and they sometimes slip just as the machine is put down and it goes over as the bars slip thru...Still,thru bars is a lot better than none,which Landis provided ....none.
 








 
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