New Surface Grinder Question
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default New Surface Grinder Question

    Who is making new hydraulic or semi-auto surface grinders in the 6x12 or 8x18 size? This is for a toolroom supporting MIM molding, Plastic molding, progressive dies and assembly for orthodontic appliances. Most of our work is either D2, CPM10V or carbide.
    We have 6 Mitsui manual 6x12's with the fine feed (.00005 per div.) on both cross and down feed and a 12x24 semi-auto Okamoto. The Okamoto is overkill for a lot of what we do and if we could let the grinder do the work on smaller jobs and save the manual machines for the really fine splitting tenths work it would help us get more work out the door.
    Last edited by William Ward; 10-04-2016 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Added info. and clarity I hope

  2. Likes cash liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1111
    Likes (Received)
    943

    Default

    If you are looking for a general toolroom grinder Kent is a good brand. I have 2 8 x 18 grinders. 1 bought used and one new. yes, I know Taiwan, bust still good stuff.

    I just bought a new 20 x 24 okamoto DX, this came from Taiwan.

    Okamoto makes what you need in the smaller size.

    There is a lot to choose from out there in this size.

    the best option you can get for working with powdered metal or D-2 is a VFD on your spindle.

  4. Likes Richard King liked this post
  5. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    greensboro,northcarolina
    Posts
    2,389
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    150
    Likes (Received)
    585

    Default

    Another vote for Okamoto. Their 8 -20 size is really popular with our toolmakers. Small enough to get your workpiece on and off the chuck easily, but automatic and easy to use. Digital readout , programmable downfeed, variable magnetic chuck are options that are well worth it.

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,187
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3457
    Likes (Received)
    3641

    Default

    It seems Acura and Kent are popular brands for mid priced but I have not used either. I wonder about Clausing, where are they made? Anyone have information on them. Yes these three are Turcite bed machines, good with having the best sealing devices to keep out grit and good machine practices to not air hose blow around machines. . Not as good as the old scraped iron IMHO. I wonder if anyone makes a small to mid size perhaps 618 to 1024 grinder with scraped iron bed anymore?
    Mitsui a ball way machine for smaller machines, also seem popular but I know nothing about them.

    QT: [.00005 per div] I think the Clausing grinders have .0002 down feed.

    I see Knuth advertised as a German machine, anyone have experience with them, Polytetrafluorethylene ways.

    Okamoto.. I have some experience and think it a good machine, but like scraped iron bed over balls. Oil scraped ways seem to give the better surface finish IMHO>
    Actually I think Turcite might be better than balls for surface finish but I have not used a turcite way grinder.

    I think the smoothness of a oil scraped bed contributes to less heat also so the iron or platics bed would get my vote, IMHO. I wonder if anyone has made an air supported bed?

    So with you having Okamoto and Mitsui I think you should find a way to experience a scraped way machine and see if you prefer the grind. Perhaps at a trade show you might try one.

    Here is an article on bed ways I mostly agree with.
    http://www.moglice.com/articles/stra...aighttalk.html

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Thanks for the replies.
    We are not too fussed about where the machine is made as long as the quality and parts and service are good.

    Cash, thanks for the tip on the VFD spindle. Do you know if anyone offers that as an option or would we need to do that ourselves. I'll look at the Kents. The Railway Museum in Perris CA has a mid 80's Kent that is a very nice machine so i could see having a new one of those.

    We love the Mitsui manual machines but my left thumb is not so sure. The big (for us) Okamoto is also a great machine. It produces great finishes and can be made to hold tenths no problem it's just too big for about 80% of our work so it's best left for the jobs it was bought for.

    I just looked at the ACC series Okamoto's. Ours is the 12 x 24 so an 8 x 20 would be just about the right size.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    7,957
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    402
    Likes (Received)
    6588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    ..... I wonder about Clausing, where are they made? .....l
    Last I knew Clausing grinders are made by Equiptop in Taiwan.
    As a opinion, very decent grinders.
    Clausing is now part of the 600 Group which also owns Pratt Burnered and Gamet bearings among others.
    Some are steel scraped, some steel on table, turc on infeed, some turc on in and cross feed. Not sure if there is a ball-way model.

    There have been air bearing surface grinders, they don't work so well outside of the semi-conductor field as the table is too compliant to grinding pressure.
    Bigger guys use hydrostatic ways so oil rather than air,
    Turcite grinders are are the cat's ass on a manual machine and nice to a cnc controller. Not free floating like a ball or roller and stiffer but so much easier on your arms and more predictable to the cnc if you have this.
    Downside, wear if you don't shield and vacuum away the grit.
    In the old days of carbide grinding Turcite ways were a no-no due to dust and grit. Not the same now as OSHA is pissed if your operator has to breath the same things the ways see.
    The black, dirty, dry grind shop is a thing of the past.

  9. Likes michiganbuck liked this post
  10. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Well I feel a little out of it. I just looked at the Okamoto that I said was 12 x 24. It's not it's an 8 x 18. Still too big for most of what I do but that means we are now looking for a 6 x 12.
    Thanks again for the thoughtful replies.

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1111
    Likes (Received)
    943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Ward View Post
    Thanks for the replies.
    We are not too fussed about where the machine is made as long as the quality and parts and service are good.

    Cash, thanks for the tip on the VFD spindle. Do you know if anyone offers that as an option or would we need to do that ourselves. I'll look at the Kents. The Railway Museum in Perris CA has a mid 80's Kent that is a very nice machine so i could see having a new one of those.

    We love the Mitsui manual machines but my left thumb is not so sure. The big (for us) Okamoto is also a great machine. It produces great finishes and can be made to hold tenths no problem it's just too big for about 80% of our work so it's best left for the jobs it was bought for.

    I just looked at the ACC series Okamoto's. Ours is the 12 x 24 so an 8 x 20 would be just about the right size.
    I know Okamoto can always quote a VFD as an option. Installing one is a pretty simple task for any qualified electrician.

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Thanks Cash that is good to know. We have several qualified electricians in our maintenance group.

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Connecticut
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    73
    Likes (Received)
    36

    Default

    Too bad you live on the opposite end of the country. I have a Kent KGS-1020-AHD that I am wanting to sell. Wanting to retire!

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    OK I'm back.
    Guess we need to move on to the next step.
    Do any of you have ballpark prices on any of the suggested machines?
    New 6 x 12 Hydraulic or semi-auto. Rounded to nearest 5 grand for budgeting.

    Thanks to everyone for the help so far

  15. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,187
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3457
    Likes (Received)
    3641

    Default

    Not pushing the Acura but this seems a good price. know larger than you asked[/I]
    http://www.sterlingmachinery.com/9136/Acra+1224HS/

    Think this is scraped TURCITE

    I wonder who makes a scraped iron oil ways machine automatic? Think I would also consider 618 because they don't take up much more floor.
    I would also like to here what new machines cost.

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    POLAND
    Posts
    61
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    The best option you can get for working with powdered metal or D-2 is a VFD on your spindle.

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    downhill from Twain\'s study outside Elmira, NY
    Posts
    11,052
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4131
    Likes (Received)
    3869

    Default

    I wonder who makes a scraped iron oil ways machine automatic?
    Rebuilt G & L, or a Micromaster???

    http://www.barkermill.com/Saddle.htm

    smt

  18. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,187
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3457
    Likes (Received)
    3641

    Default

    It would be hard to decide between the two. The G&L often called Grand Rapids is a saddle travel and the B$S Micromaster a column travel. I have used both and also have used Okamoto's and other ball and roller travels.
    I believe the scraped oil ways are smoother so giving better finish, wheel life and accuracy.
    To have one of the old machines with ball lead screws, wheel probes, stepping motor feed and DRO would be the way to go.

    I also think the plane bearing spindle gives the best finish but nobody would wish to wait for warm up.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •