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Preferred surface grinder manufacturer

M. Roberts

Cast Iron
Joined
May 11, 2021
People,

I'm sure that everyone has their own opinion on this...Who makes the best reciprocating surface grinder today? I was looking at Okamoto mainly because we already have two, but if there was another similar quality machine, it would be considered. Looking for something in the 24" x 48" range,

Thanks,
Mark
 
Hi M Roberts:
Okamoto (as I'm sure you know well) is used and liked by an awful lot of high end tool makers.
Hermann Schmidt uses them (or at least used to)
Suburban Tool recently got one I believe.
Cash who posts on here and runs a big grind shop has at least one.
RJT who posts here too and runs a toolroom in North Carolina has a couple.

Those are pretty powerful endorsements.
Any big reason for you to seek out another brand other than curiosity, and maybe a desire to save some bucks?

I know it can be tempting to look over the fence at the green green grass on the other side, but sometimes the wife you got is still the best wife for you to have!

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
 
Marcus,

Thank you for the reply. I agree, I like our two Okamoto machines ( a fairly new 1632, and an older 820) Both perform very well. I was tasked with finding another machine ( I had another post about the issues we had with the valve body), and there just isn't many newer machines out there for sale. I did get quotes for a new machine for comparison; no feedback from my boss as of yet. Personally, I like to have machines of similar make and vintage for part interchangeability.

Mark
 
We grind metering pumps and slide valves from 1/2 to 2" by 5 by 16" hard D-2 and 440C stainless flat and parallel less than .0002" on a regular basis. Change filters and hydraulic oil yearly and they stay in an air conditioned clean environment 24/7. All with Okamoto grinders. We have had 1 spindle rebuilt in the last 10 years, we have upgraded, traded in older models, they have been great workhorses. We currently have 5 of them. Pictures here.
Progressive Tool @ MFG. INC. Greensboro, NC
 
I think scraped Iron ways are the best for long-life smoothness and accuracy but don't know if anyone makes them anymore. Turciite and the like I don't know much about. but suspect with good design to keep grit out and oil wash out grits they may be good.
Ball and roller ways are good as long as the balls and rollers are clean..I have witnessed ball and roller machines needing the balls and roller to be cleaned because grits get into the works.

Agree with Okamoto grinders are good machines..and a good choice.

I have run brand new ballway grinders and think that they don't give as good a finish as a scraped oil ways machine.
If I designed a SG I would put a felt wick along the long travel on the collum side.

If I bought a ball way grinder (or any grinder) I would add a dust shield to go behind the chuck on the collum side. Abrasive bounces off the collum and some tries to wnter the works.

I have put s strip of masking tape along the parting line at the long travel and with just painting it will last perhaps as long as the machine..to keep the grits out.
 
guys, this isn't the first time that the term "dust" was used in the grinding conversation; are you in fact running dry, or is "mist" a better term? Or, are you only running dry while truing the wheel? 99.9% of the time, we run diamond wheels which we run wet, even while truing/dressing.

Mark
 
Hi Peter:
Yeah once you get into European machines there are some nice toys out there.
Jung is good
Elb is good.
Maegerle is good
Bloem is good.

But...so far as I know, these are all not well represented in North America so if you have one or get one, you have a bit of an orphan on our side of the pond.

If you're going to do that you could just as well get a Landis or a Parker Majestic or a B+S or a Mattison and have a great grinder too, that you at least have a better chance at getting parts for, and that local rebuilders will know well and can bring back to new condition more easily for you.

I don't know if the OP is at all interested in having an old machine reconditioned, but if he is, I'd be looking at a machine that won't be too hard to rebuild and to keep running.
Even though the Euro brands I mentioned above are great grinders, I'd be wary of installing one in my business in North America simply because of the weaker North American presence, and because I believe they are no better than the best North American machines of similar vintage.

By contrast to some of the Euro machines, Okamoto has a pretty good presence in North America, so I'd find it to be a safer bet if I was shopping grinders; new or used.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
 
Jung is good
Elb is good.
Maegerle is very very good
Bloem is good.

I diskussed surface grinders here on some occasions with 2 shopowners
Maegerle was concidered the best surface grinder available along with Camut for the bigger ones
But that comes with a price
I would also select a machine with service available yes

Peter
 
I have a Gallmeyer and Livingston (Grand Rapids) 10 X 30 that I restored. I think they still make new ones. Supposed to be a high end machine. I have not used mine yet as I have been too busy to finnish it so I can't tell you how good they are. I can tell you It is a well built stout machine tool.
 
Re OT Norb: [a Gallmeyer and Livingston] Rebuilt to new specifications.. likely no new machine in the world could come close to the performance and longevity of a G&L.

Parker Majestic, B&S, Mattison, Norton, Thompson, Landis, Abrasive just to name a few great never-to-be-matched machines. Colonial needs mention even though they did not make a SG, such great scraping would have made a top surface grinder. I think Thompson and Colonial had the best scraping quality.

Back in the day shops wanted only the best machine so builders would compete for that reckoning. B&S even made T bolts to near 100% threads. You could take a standard nut and most would not go on a B&S T bolt., Overkill yes.
But a decent B&S would grind ring-together parts. (as would many other top grinders)

Nobody can afford to put in the time it takes to match some of the great old machines when a throwaway machine cost only 25%,

That is why the green lathe is selling and the Monarch EE is obsolete. Bulders today cant match Gisholt and Warner Swasey, add ball screws, stepping motors, and CNC and nothing could touch them.
 
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I agree with most replies here, Okamoto is clearly the machine of choice.

I will say that there is another Japanese manufacturer that hasn't cut the corners as much as Okamoto;

NICCO, these grinders are simply, the best.
 
Okamoto are nice, we have several of them. I have no complaints. Service and support are good.

Going larger, Mattison will give you better stock removal due to wheel size and spindle horsepower. We are retrofitting a 24" x 60" with a Fanuc control, Rebuilt spindle and new table reversal valve.

It will be like a new machine.
 
I was looking at Okamoto mainly because we already have two, but if there was another similar quality machine, it would be considered. Looking for something in the 24" x 48" range,

Makes sense to get a third. Keep it all within the same family.

While their machines aren't perfect, Okamoto as a company doesn't overpromise and doesn't take short cuts.

24x48 takes you out of the "saddle" type of machine and into the "column" type. More rigid but also much more expensive. Consider whether you really need that capacity, or if you can step down to say a 20x40.

Also, surface grinder options are expensive but can pay for themselves many times over.

1. Fully automatic rough, finish, and spark out - you have no idea how much time you're wasting until you've had this capability. This is the difference between an ACC-GX model vs an ACC-SA1, probably around 30k.

2. Automatic diamond dress compensation: see #1

3. Paper coolant filter + magnetic separator: also a must. The paper filter delivers very clean coolant, while the mag separator significantly cuts down on the amount of filter media used

4. Auto wheel balancer: if you change wheels with any sort of frequency, a big time saver
 
We will most likely go with a Okamoto; I may have mentioned that a decent used machine that isn't too old (5 years or so) is proving hard to find, especially a machine in the size range. As mentioned, we currently have a 1632 machine, and we keep getting requests for larger parts, so that is why we plan to get a larger machine.

Orange vise, I agree with the need to have the added features, rough/finish cuts and spark outs. We may be getting off topic on this; but we almost exclusively use diamond wheels, specifically vitrified bonded diamond wheels, so the overhead diamond dresser is of no use to us. We use an external devise that we mount to the mag chuck for truing.

I have never seen an auto balancer...that sounds interesting.
 
Orange vise is fine/Ok if part tolerances are easily met. Actually, the use of any vise used on a mag chuck is a deterrent to accuracy on a surface grinder. They often have .0002 or more error, they carry grit to the chuck, take time to tighten, and may tighten tighter at the bottom of the jaws and so slightly tilt the part.
Agree there may be jobs where they (a vise) is necessary, or a vise with a step movable jaw is set in place of the mag chick.

For starting a break-dresser I flip the dresser wheel with a pencil eraser so it is rolling at the start. That is just a trick an old-timer (who I respected) suggested. he said one out of a hundred diamond wheels will cack with not doing that. Agree on many CNC grinders that rolling the dresser wheel may not be possible.

One trick for a large part and a grinder devoted to that type of part is to remove the mag chuck and then add an angle plate in its place. With grinding in the angle plate at its bottom and verticle, and then setting work with a clamp work is held accurately and secure.
 
With the best care in the world, a balls way travel surface grinder is likely to get abrasive grits in the balls. The masking tape strip added to overlap on the collum side at the parting space is the answer to this problem. Anyone buying a new SG should consider this simple fix.

An oil way machine of iron or plastic tends to wash out grits so is safer, but the tape strip is an asset to them also.

You put a smear of oil on the lower so that does not stick..and stick the tape to the upper so having a 1/4" overlap to the lower. You can mask off that tape and paint it so it becomes waterproof and lasts a very long time.

Perhaps the Okamoto has an oiled felt wick shield there in that gap?.. If I designed that machine it would.

Re: Some grinding grits and bonding material float on air molecules and some just bounce off something so go everywhere.

I have taken the table off at the cleanest shops and have found dirty balls.
 








 
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