Tramming A Cylindrical Grinder

I run a Kellenberger Cylindrical Grinder at work.

A co-worker of mine on another shift swiveled the headstock to grind a bevel on a 1" dowel, then just visibly re-lined it up to the "0" line on the scale.

With no chuck on the headstock, a dead-center in the tailstock, what is the best wat to tram the headstock straight again?

My thought is to attach a mag-base with a .0001" indicator on the round plate that the dog attaches to and rotates around the headstock dead-center, and indicate the OD of the dead-center in the tailstock while adjusting the angle of the headstock until tailstock center indicates true. Any other suggestions?

I ask, as I have very little time to mess around with it, and lots of snoops wondering what I am doing if I do anything odd, like precisely aligning anything up.

An indicator attached to the table perhaps on the work head and strike to the wheel head traveling on cross feed. Side of wheel for close ,, to the wheel mount for very close to zero. This for tramming the wheel head.

Indicator on the wheel head and traveling with cross to indicator strike the headstock, but that does not matter if he table is off..because the head and tail centers must line up point to point.

For the headstock often line the work head and tail centers point to point first..and make a note to put in your tool box of where the scale is when straight

lots of snoops and a bird dog boss can make life difficult.

How did your coworker hold the 1" dowel he ground the angle on? I would use what ever he used to hold another 1" dowel and simply align off of it.

Look for a hole in the swivel base where a tapered pin might fit. The zero position should match up with the alignment holes.
The newer machines have a zero position clamp and a provision for using gauge blocks to set the work head angle.

Second approach:
Place dead centers in both the head and tail stocks. Slide the tail stock one inch away from the head stock and clamp in place.
Place a steel rule between the two center points. The spring loaded tail stock quill will keep it in place. Swivel the head stock so that the steel rule is at 90 degrees to the table.
This method is from a 1930's text book. It requires dead centers with sharp undamaged points.

Third method:
Place a morse taper bushing in the head stock. Slide the tail stock with a dead center up to the head stock and clamp in place. Use the cone of the tail stock center to align with the conical seat of the head stock bushing.
You may need a bright light inside the head stock spindle to illuminate the gap in the misaligned seat.

The alignment process will be more involved If you have a late model grinder with the flexure -micrometer shift mechanism on the tail stock center line.

Derek Smalls said:

How did your coworker hold the 1" dowel he ground the angle on? I would use what ever he used to hold another 1" dowel and simply align off of it.

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He mounted a small chuck on it. It's not a straight-foreward proceedure either. We have only ground pieces between centers on this machine, and that headstock has never been swiveled in the 14-years we've had it. I wouldn't know how to mount it again, even if I knew where it was.

Robert R said:

Second approach:
Place dead centers in both the head and tail stocks. Slide the tail stock one inch away from the head stock and clamp in place.
Place a steel rule between the two center points. The spring loaded tail stock quill will keep it in place. Swivel the head stock so that the steel rule is at 90 degrees to the table.
This method is from a 1930's text book. It requires dead centers with sharp undamaged points.

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I like it! I'm off until after New Years Day, but when I go back, I'm going to try it.

I ran it again tonight and it's definitely out. I'm grinding tapered shafts to mate with ID-ground tapered bores. I know from experience that grinding ID tapers without the grinder being set up precisely can cause strange, frustrating results. Thinking that's what's going on here with OD tapers.

BTW, it is a KELLENBERGER Kel-Universal U1500 cylindrical grinder.

I would do it in two steps.

(1) Make sure that the swivel table has not been moved from the parallel position. You can mount an indicator on the wheel head and sweep the ground registration line on the front of the swivel table to be sure. If the swivel table has been shifted off parallel, adjust it back to true.

(2) Put clean ground centers in the workstock spindle and tailstock, and then put a ground test bar in between the headstock and tailstock centers. An 8-inch to foot-long bar would be good. Indicate that with a 0.0001" indicator mounted to the wheel head, and sweep back and forth. Now loosen the workstock and tap it true with a lump of brass or lead or a plastic hammer, sweeping as you go. Tighten up work stock and sweep one more time as a final check.

Note that this works because the tailstock has a spring inside to take up expansion. So you can adjust the workstock and it won't "jam" the tailstock.

charlie said:

it is a KELLENBERGER Kel-Universal U1500 cylindrical grinder.

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Your grinder work head is set up for a sine bar attachment to set the swivel angle using gauge blocks. It looks like this is a standard feature and not a option. The sine bar attachment point is underneath the front cover plate at the base of the work head. The attachment may have been lost if it has not been used in the last 14 years.

The sine bar sets the work head angle with respect to the machine base rather than to the table top.

The top table on the grinder is 60 inches long and has a sine bar working distance of 30 inches. The zero position on the top table can be set to the degree scale about 6 times more accurately than the 10 inch diameter turntable on the work head .Or, as Ballen suggests, set the top table to zero by indicating off the dovetail reference surface.

Setting the top table to the zero position and then indicating a bar held between centers will be the best option if the work head sine bar cannot be found.

no test bar somewhere in the drawers? Kellenbergers usually come with a nice, big MT4 bar - - very handy for setting the workhead straight

Mount some sort of plate on the headstock spindle or chuck, dust the face of it towards the OD, and use that ground face to tram along X axis. Swivel as needed so both "ends" of face (X+ and X- side) are zero to each other.

While it may be interesting to tram the grinding head, is it necessary? If the bed (X) axis was trammed true and not changed and the work axis trammed true and not changed, there is no need to true tram the grinding head as the act of dressing the wheel is the automatic true. When you are grinding to a shoulder do you not swing the head a couple of degrees with the wheel dressed now on the face and leading edge for a long and short grinding face. If your grinding wheel dia. is getting too small and near the hub and there is a danger of the hub contacting any of your work head drive arrangement you can put 5 degrees on your grinding head and redress the wheel true and you often get quite a few more pieces off before pulling and installing a new wheel. Personally I would fire anyone who changed a true trammed workhead to do a one off bevel, using the grinding head axis is the quickest and most easily corrected axis change on a cylindrical grinder.

Another method for aligning the headstock with no chuck provision available, is to mount a shaft between centers, dust a band on the face facing the headstock, and fit an indicator somehow on the headstock center, with tip on the ground face. Then rotate and watch. Although, the center would have to rotate with the part obviously. If it's a stationary center headstock, this won't work.

On 2nd thought, even with a stationary center headstock, you still may be able to use this method, but instead mount the indicator on the drive dog arm (or whatever you use) and put the tip still on the ground face. Then rotate slowly, and watch the relationship of the plane created perpendicular to the headstock centerline, and the face of the shaft between centers. Make sense?

art.h said:

While it may be interesting to tram the grinding head, is it necessary?

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The OP has asked about tramming the workhead, not the grinding head. As you say, the grinding head is "trammed" when the wheel is dressed.