Recommendations for Deckel SO
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  1. #1
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    Default Recommendations for Deckel SO

    Looking to power a newly purchased Deckel SO single lip cutter grinder. I'd really like to power it with 110v single-phase input (rather than be limited to placing it near a 220v line).

    I'm considering a 110v single-phase to 220v three-phase VFD. Perhaps the KBMA-24D at $168. Or perhaps the KBAC-24. Both seem rated for fractional hp up to 1 hp. Both seem capable of the 110-220 and 1-3 phase conversions.

    But since this will be my first VFD I'm wondering if anyone has any experience (positive or negative) with either of these units, and particularly whether anyone has any thoughts about their applicability to the stock three-phase motor on the Deckel. I'm having some difficulty interpreting the nameplate ratings:

    Siemens-Schuckert
    D-Mot
    OR8,9-2
    Nr. E10841351
    220/440 V
    Y Delta
    1,06.0,63 A
    0,2/0,24 kW
    cos Lamda? 0,76
    3290 U/min
    Tropenfest Made in Germany

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumpster_diving View Post
    Looking to power a newly purchased Deckel SO single lip cutter grinder. I'd really like to power it with 110v single-phase input (rather than be limited to placing it near a 220v line).

    I'm considering a 110v single-phase to 220v three-phase VFD. Perhaps the KBMA-24D at $168. Or perhaps the KBAC-24. Both seem rated for fractional hp up to 1 hp. Both seem capable of the 110-220 and 1-3 phase conversions.

    But since this will be my first VFD I'm wondering if anyone has any experience (positive or negative) with either of these units, and particularly whether anyone has any thoughts about their applicability to the stock three-phase motor on the Deckel. I'm having some difficulty interpreting the nameplate ratings:

    Siemens-Schuckert
    D-Mot
    OR8,9-2
    Nr. E10841351
    220/440 V
    Y Delta
    1,06.0,63 A
    0,2/0,24 kW
    cos Lamda? 0,76
    3290 U/min
    Tropenfest Made in Germany
    Talk to Sean or Harald at Electric Motors | Motor Controls | VFD | AC Drive

    No relation, just a satisfied customer. I have bought 3 different 1 to 3hp drives from them. Competent advice and great prices. Send them a photo of the motor nameplate and ask for a recommendation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    ballen-

    Thanks very much for the tip. I already ordered a KBMA-24D yesterday, but I'll keep them in mind for next time.

    I'll report back on the utility of the KB unit once it arrives and I wire it up.

    Greatly appreciate it.

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    Happy to report the KBMA-24D arrived a day early. Wired it up to the Deckel SO with no issues. The physical jumpers (versus setting parameters in menus) made it super easy to adapt for my unit.

    Runs great on 110V. No problems driving the 220v 3P original motor.

    Highly recommend the unit and KB.

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  7. #5
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    Further question for any Deckel SO owners:

    I made a tool holder to replace the stock indexing cylindrical work head. I'll use it for grinding HSS lathe tools, etc. It's a close copy of the commercially available lathe tool adapter. Fits great but the work head it dovetails into only rotates 90 degrees. So, for instance, if I'm grinding a threading tool there's no problem surfacing the right hand cutting face of the 60 degree point...but when I try to rotate the work head to surface the left hand cutting face I run into a hard stop inside the head mechanism.

    I could cobble together some sort of further adaptor...but I'm surprised the work head doesn't rotate past that 90 degree mark. I don't see how the commercial lathe tool adapter would solve this issue so I'm confused.

    I'll spend some time reviewing the operating instructions but wondering if anyone has already sorted this out.

    Thanks in advance.

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    Flip the tool over, or make a square to round adapter for the big collet. Never seen a square Deckel collet, but they may exist. You will have to add relief the opposite direction when you do so.

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    I went and looked at the SO we have here and I could not get past the stop either. My Famco/Gorton SO copy at home has a removable pin/bolt that comes out that allows it to swing past 90 a bit. I don't remember exactly what the stop is on a Deckel, but maybe alittle judicious surgery might be a easy fix and still not jeopardize the original functionality.

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    Toms and Daryl-

    Flipping the lathe tool in the holder and I still couldn't approach from the correct angle. But upside down I was, however, at least able to flip the tool and set it in the holder at a 60 degree angle. Sketchy, because there's very little contact between the tool and the holder and only one set screw holds the tool in place. But good enough to at least get the primary grind done. I may make a sub-holder to more fully support the tool in that position.

    I also really like the idea of making a square bushing to go in the largest collet. As you say, will still need to do the relief freehand, but at least I'm halfway there.

    An unfortunate update on the KBMA. After only a half hour, had the wheel under a bit of load and blew sparks and the magic smoke out of the phase converter. I toasted it. Upon closer reading of the instructions, problem may have been my hooking it to a 110v GFI outlet. GFI may be a no-no without a special software upgrade. In contact with the seller to see if they'll help me out. Remaining optimistic.

    Thanks all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumpster_diving View Post
    An unfortunate update on the KBMA. After only a half hour, had the wheel under a bit of load and blew sparks and the magic smoke out of the phase converter. I toasted it. Upon closer reading of the instructions, problem may have been my hooking it to a 110v GFI outlet. GFI may be a no-no without a special software upgrade. In contact with the seller to see if they'll help me out. Remaining optimistic.

    Thanks all.
    GFCI of the "ordinary" sort most definitely does NOT play well in a shop full of motors, VFD, DC Drives, other complexifications. Not even basic motor start/stop, light single phase, 120VAC. I've had ignorant incandescent lamps trip them when a filament finally expires with the wrong sort of finale.

    Small stuff - I just run "naked" straight outlets. One was never meant to create hazards with ordinary wiring, anyway, and generally will not have done.

    Big and hairy stuff, I spring for a few specialized circuit breakers in the panel.

    1CW

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    A bit of wonder why a GFI could smoke a VFD. Motors with brushes will often trip a GFI, from experience I know it happens. But smoke the VFD very odd?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms Wheels View Post
    A bit of wonder why a GFI could smoke a VFD. Motors with brushes will often trip a GFI, from experience I know it happens. But smoke the VFD very odd?
    Voltage-doubler VFD in this case. No certainty yet (if ever?) who smoked whom, whyso, nor in what sequence though.

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    Been in contact with KB tech department. They assure me the GFI had nothing to do with smoking the unit. At worst, would have just serially tripped the GFI with no damage to anything.

    So unclear at the moment why the issue. Sending it off to KB for root cause.

    Stay tuned.

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  20. #14
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    Here as they say, is the rest...of the story...

    KB tech department examined the unit. After a few weeks their tech sent me an e-mail describing the damage in some detail. In my opinion, none of the damage implies a root cause, but rather simply confirmed the unit had a number of smoked components. No surprise given the smoke and sparks. There was an implication throughout that they would only repair/replace under warrantee if the unit was not to blame, but they did offer to repair the board at a discounted price.

    I appreciated that but felt they should repair the board at their expense (or at least explain what I did to cause the damage). After some back-and-forth they ultimately agreed to repair it if I paid for shipping. By that time I had already gotten Motor & Control Solutions (from whom I had purchased the unit off of Amazon) involved. M&CS offered to pay for the repair (or the shipping- I'm not entirely sure how that all ended-up as M&CS dealt directly with KB). Regardless, I would say KB required some prodding to do the right thing. M&CS stepped-up willingly to do their part.

    End result, a repaired unit arrived last week. I installed it (wired identically to the first time) and the Deckel works great.

    So ultimately I'm a happy camper but remain convinced there was something wrong with the original unit. And I strongly recommend M&CS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms Wheels View Post
    Flip the tool over, or make a square to round adapter for the big collet. Never seen a square Deckel collet, but they may exist. You will have to add relief the opposite direction when you do so.
    Toms Wheels-

    Your advice turns out to have been spot on. I got a 16 point deep socket, turned the OD down to 5/8", and slit it at 90 degrees along half it's length (so it would compress). I forget what size socket but close-enough that I was able to broach it out to accept a standard 3/8" HSS square cutter. By putting that in a 5/8" Deckel collet (as you recommended) I'm able to get all the relief angles on a normal lathe tool. Much simpler than the replacement tool holder head I made earlier.

    I think there are similar commercially available adapters for holding square HSS bits in round holes for line boring...but it was easy to fabricate.

    I'd recommend your solution as much simpler than the replacement tool holder head.

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