Source for Internal grinding wheels and what is a good epoxy to bond to arbor
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    Default Source for Internal grinding wheels and what is a good epoxy to bond to arbor

    Doing some different ID grinding operations and not using mounted wheels. Anyone have a good source for ID grinding wheels for example 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/8 hole. Also 1" od X 3/4 wide X 1/2 or 3/8 hole.

    I will be epoxying these to my arbor. Can anyone recommend a good epoxy for this?

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    3M ScotchWeld 2216 is damn good, and in my cabinet, so that is what I would use. You want a good steel bonding epoxy, which means no 5-minute cure ones. 2216 has a working time of around 30-45 minutes and takes a few days to cure at room temp. I think they still make it but if they don't get what replaced it.

    The best advice I can give is call 3m and ask for technical help and ask them. They won't be the cheapest but probably the best. Or, wait for it....

    This is a different companies version of 2216 and most likely would work fine, $25 and shipping.

    I've used both and would trust either in your application, but a lot depends on using it right. I have a scale that reads .01 grams that I use to measure a and b, this does make a big difference IME vs measuring by volume. And clean the steel manderal perfectly then abrade with some new, clean! 80 grit cloth. I would also post cure at 150 degrees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Doing some different ID grinding operations and not using mounted wheels. Anyone have a good source for ID grinding wheels for example 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/8 hole. Also 1" od X 3/4 wide X 1/2 or 3/8 hole.
    I had boxes of these ... they were standard Norton wheels, available in different grits. I got them from the local tool supplier but that was then ... You could ask Lumley Spindle Service in Michigan, they rebuild i.d. grinder spindles and should have a good source.

    I will be epoxying these to my arbor. Can anyone recommend a good epoxy for this?
    What are you using for a grinder ? With a Red Head, it's way easier and faster to use a couple blotters and a wheelscrew (just a modified shoulder bolt) onto a spindle instead of those mounted wheels. Toss it on and dress and away ya go. Those small wheels wear out fast, you'd have to make a whole bunch of them ...

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    For valve seat work to bond the wheel to the centre part i have used Qbond it seem to work well, it was low speed but i suppose it would work as well in a high speed setup.

    here About Us – Q-Bond

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    Somewhere I saw a guy cutting little internal grinding wheels using a water jet. He had it all nested in cad to cut them out of standard 8” bench grinder wheels. It seemed wrong on so many levels that I should have inquired wtf they were doing.

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    I have used a threaded stub arbor for such wheels. Good to have blotters at both wheel ends and the spindle direction the way that tightens the screw thread.

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    Norton has a pretty good stock selection of their Targa wheels. We have been running these for years.

    To be honest I have have some boxes of a size close to this laying around, I will check later today.

    Just as michiganbuch and emanuelgoldstein, we bolt to our arbor. We have a redhead for these small wheels.

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    Thanks for the tips guys. We are using this for the arbor.

    https://shop.fischerspindle.com/epag...leifdorne/HJND

    So we have to glue. I plan on making a whole bunch of arbors so I am not to worried about throwing them out after they get too small :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Thanks for the tips guys. We are using this for the arbor.

    https://shop.fischerspindle.com/epag...leifdorne/HJND

    So we have to glue. I plan on making a whole bunch of arbors so I am not to worried about throwing them out after they get too small :-)
    Seems odd the drive end goes one way and the wheel the other. Seems that would make them expensive. motors often reverse so that would seem less costly..

    RE: [For highest precision and safety at high speeds the HJND interface is grinded.}

    *Grinded? It seems such a high quality spindle manufactuer would get the language right.

    I wonder if anyone tolded them they made that error?

    Switzerland outfit, wound think they would get it right.

    I sent them an email..let's see if they reply.

    ["Grinded" is not a proper word. Please check your ID spindle catalog.]

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    "grinded" ;-) I saw that too.
    I think the red arrow indicated the direction of spindle rotation while grinding. Fischer is known for some really high-end spindles for grinding and machining so hopefully they know what they are doing. Once up and running I will post some videos and pics on my instagram.

    Any other sources for wheels guys please let me know...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post

    Any other sources for wheels guys please let me know...
    You might also look at the CBN wheels for ID grinding from Diagrind. They may have the geometry that you need for the Fischer arbor in stock.

    The CBN wheels may be less expensive than conventional abrasives to use on a per hole basis particularly if you are bonding the wheel to a steel arbor. The online catalog has prices listed.

    Quality, Precision, Experience….Diagrind - Diagrind Inc | Superabrasive Internal Grinding Wheels

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    Yes we use Diagrind for a lot of our setups. In fact I just ordered from them a few days ago. In many setups we still prefer ceramics. Easy to dress and once you dress it it is dead true and dead straight. No worries about bell mouth or taper. CBN is a little harder to dress and get to run true compared to alum oxides or ceramics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Thanks for the tips guys. We are using this for the arbor.

    https://shop.fischerspindle.com/epag...leifdorne/HJND
    If you are doing this a lot, a 273 Heald is a very nice machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    If you are doing this a lot, a 273 Heald is a very nice machine.
    Yes we do a lot of ID grinding. Our newest machine that we are setting up with this Fischer I.D spindle is this...

    favoritCNC | STUDER

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    How does one "unglue" and reuse the arbor once the stone is used up?
    Making grinding arbors are throwaway? That can't be in the 5-20 dollars a piece.
    Plenty of epoxies that will do this ... JB weld will do it, almost any 24 hour sets will do it.
    Do not use quick or 1-8 hour set. Bond strength is pitiful for a grinding wheel. While not much power in the torque at that interface to the shaft is high due to size.\
    A shiny finish on the arbor does not help and is bad.
    Runout does not matter here at all since you will dress the stone. Knurls, slits, or flats do help the glue.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Yes we do a lot of ID grinding. Our newest machine that we are setting up with this Fischer I.D spindle is this...
    Studers are nice but for dedicated ID grinding, its hard to beat a Heald ... for example, the question you just posed does not exist with a Heald. Holding a tenth all day with a 1943 Heald is nothing, and of course the newer ones are even better. Specializing can be effective

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    How does one "unglue" and reuse the arbor once the stone is used up?
    Place in a preheated oven at 375 deg F and bake until golden brown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R View Post
    Place in a preheated oven at 375 deg F and bake until golden brown.
    As opposed to grabbing a wheel out of the box, grab two blotters, put the screw through the wheel, snug it up on the arbor, dress and go.

    I really don't like mounted wheels. They are cumbersome. (I've got a couple thousand hours in ID grinding and really don't like those. I really like ID grinding, if you can't tell. It's very rhythmic )

    Seems like even a Studer should have interchangeable spindles that work like a real ID grinder ?

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    As for cutting normal wheels with a water jet yes you can do it, it leaves a wider kerf though due to the grit coming off grinding other grit.

    Just buy the right shape first time is best water jet is a expensive way to make up stones but can be done if your stuck.

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    CarbideBob,
    I am making the arbors so throwing them away ( if I need to) is not a big deal. Making a few hundred arbors is not a big deal, these are only 1" dia at its biggest dia. Yes I would make the area that is getting glued a rough surface. I may even spot a few dimples with a x-live tool or just turn it with a super high feedrate.

    EmanuelGoldstein,
    I dont know too much about the 1943 Heald. We have some applications where we use the same id grinding wheel to grind a 8deg tapered hole and then also a straight bore behind it. Must be done in one clamping to maintain concentricity.

    I am sure arbors are available with screws instead of gluing. This spindle is rated for 60,000 rpms so I would imagine a nice properly glued wheel will be better balanced and reliable than a screw mounted wheel. Even though no way would I spin anything over 3/8 dia over maybe 40,000 rpms. The 60,000 rpms is for when I grind with a .11 dia wheel for our 1/8 endmill holders.

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