Sunnen MBB-1600 MS Misc Questions
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default Sunnen MBB-1600 MS Misc Questions

    Got a text from neighbor last week saying the guy with local trucking co had an antique boring machine for sale, no description, name, or pics. "boring machine" can cover a lot of machines, realizing that description came from non-machinists, it could be anything.

    Stopped in Friday, seller said "its behind the warehouse, no idea if its anything you can use, take a look", so I rolled around the warehouse and found this machine. Not sure how long its been outside, the high desert climate is pretty easy on steel, it showed some weathering, but nothing too bad. Next question was what he wanted for it, prices tend to run high around here because "you ain't finding another one for 250+ miles in any direction" factor. Seller showed up a few minutes later, we chatted, he threw out a price of $100, I said "I'll be here Monday to pick it up"

    Drug it home Monday, quick bath on base before dragging it inside, sprayed dust out of gear train on back, shot lube in anywhere it seemed it needed it, and hit the start switch. It started, made some noise so I shut it off, verified noise was just a tattered belt, hit start again and just got a hum. Pulled and opened motor, nothing obviously wrong, emery across contacts, pulled and reseated spade terminals, back together and it runs great, one of those I fixed it, but not sure what was wrong cases.

    Main spindle bearings sound awfully dry and growly, how hard is it to pull spindle and replace bearings? Anyone know bearing #'s? I've ordered a couple manuals, waiting for them to arrive.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails sunnen-1.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Good chance it's not the bearings. Most likely it it the brake dragging. Take the flat belt off and push the foot peddle down and see if the spindle will turn freely by hand. If there is any drag look for a break strap or a brake pad on the big pulley. That model may have a brake pad on the inside of the pulley.

    Spindle bearings are normally not an issue.

  3. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
    Posts
    4,583
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    299

    Default

    I have the same model, if the machine is adjusted correctly a slight push on the pedal will release the brake, and the spindle will rotate freely.
    That model was the last all cast iron machine.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default

    Motor is whisper quiet, when I step on pedal the spindle spins, it just has that old dry bearing sound. Reading other posts it seems like spindle bearings on these machines are irrelevant, accuracy is in mandrel, not the bearings, but I'm picky about machines, growling bearings are not acceptable. If they are $100+ apiece bearings, I'll figure a way to get some lubrication into them, $20 apiece and I'll install new ones.

    With power off, step on pedal, spindle moves freely, have not looked further for source of noise, seems to be from back bearing.

    Anyone here ever setup a Sunnen to accept Superior mandrels? I ran a Sunnen LBB stroker, 30 some odd years ago, just doing stacks of rods, all day long...but got to watch boss do all sorts of one off custom parts. Many times over the years there have been jobs where I needed to get a good pin/bore fit, always came down to "if I just had a pin hone".

    Looking at pricing for Sunnen mandrels was a shocker, no way I can justify tooling this machine for 1/4" to 3" range with such a small potential customer base. Looking for instructionals on YT I found Tennesee Abrasives has an adapter (M# T1000) to use Superior mandrels in Sunnen machines, further research shows Superior made same adapter (M# W1000), anyone have one of those laying around?

    Any Youtube creators here? There are no good instructionals on using a Sunnen hone, or repairing one, I think we've covered old vise restorations to death, how about something new and different

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Noise coming from the back sounds like a break dragging. Spindle bearings on honing machines fail about once on 500 machines.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default

    Had a little time to play with this today, brake is a band type, not dragging, don't think its the source of the sound. Studying the belt arrangement I realized there are 2 main belts, chart indicates idler lever down for low speed, but only thing moving was whole spring loaded arm. Studying that arrangement I realized the 2 idler wheels were offset and needed to rotate in the arm, nothing really wrong there, it had just sat too long in that position and liked it, cleaned greased and back in. Both idler bearings are shot, low speed side is seized, high speed side is quite crunchy and possibly source of noise I was hearing, bearing part#88016, 2 ordered and on the way.

    Course feed knob is seized, I've applied as much pressure as I feel safe doing in both directions, no movement whatsoever, no wiggle, no backlash felt, not sure what that shaft is connected to or how to get some penetrant in there. For such a "simple" machine, this one has me head scratching, a lathe would be easier, but maybe just because I've been there before.

    Pretty sure whole dial indicator assembly needs to come off for cleaning/repair, still waiting for manuals with exploded diagrams.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails sunnen-2.jpg  

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    marysville ohio
    Posts
    9,355
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2668
    Likes (Received)
    6181

    Default

    I buy Mandrels to fit whatever job I have for mine. No chance I would ever buy a full set at one time. 20 years later you would not have used half the sizes.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default

    With Sunnen mandrel pricing, I can see that, just not sure how many jobs I'll get in bfe that would justify buying even 1 sunnen mandrel. Superior mandrels are quite affordable in comparison, I picked up most of a set of A series mandrels on ebay a few days ago, 42 mandrels (many duplicates) at $6 a pop. How they compare to Sunnen, I don't know, my needs are not aerospace or top fuel dragsters, more like bushings, hydraulic valves, small engine bores, make part A fit part B. Never used Superior stuff, hope it can do what I need, if not I'll start collecting sunnen stuff when I can find it, cheap.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Upstate NY -In the Flats next to the corn fields
    Posts
    8,982
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1455
    Likes (Received)
    2412

    Default

    Watching this thread with interest, please report on how well the Superior mandrels work.
    Other than that, you need to become a Youtube creator.......your first video can be a detailed account on setting up, and
    using this machine.......with the superior mandrels of course.....


  11. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  12. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Sounds like you are on the right track now. If the dial indicator is stuck remove the round plate in the back and use liberal amounts of lighter fluid. Also there is a little silver cap on the end 180 degrees from the stem, remove it and fill with lighter fluid. Then work the shaft by hand and it should free up.

    Lighter fluid will cut the gunk and not leave a residue. Do not use spray carb cleaner it can be hard on the plastic bezel.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    6,058
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4179
    Likes (Received)
    3714

    Default

    Frankly, even at those prices, I'd still purchase Sunnen. They are relatively inexpensive on the 'bay. Plus, it is ridiculously easy to find whole collections for sale from shops that have closed. We purchased over $8K worth of mandrels, shoes, stones, and other consumables & accessories for something like $1000. ( don't recall the exact number any longer ) For the difference in result, it is not even a discussion as far as I am concerned. There is simply no way that we would use the Superior branded ones, here.

    I actually did a side by side test about a year and a half/two years ago. For our uses, it was no contest. We need positively round bores. No surprise in the end though. Sunnen has spent likely millions+ on testing and developing, given the industries they serve.

    Obviously, YMMV. Just don't believe the hype and do your own research.

  14. Likes gappmast, dalmatiangirl61, triumph406 liked this post
  15. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default

    Manuals arrived yesterday, a little studying, some penetrant in the right spots, and the course feed knob is free.

    I'm into dial indicator, further than I thought I could go. Inner works look clean, but its still very gummy and slow moving, contemplating dropping it in acetone, or should I use lighter fluid (Ronson), or something else? Face of dial cleaned up with purple power and a soft brush, its a bit faded, but still readable. Bezel, not in pic because its soaking in acetone, purple power and a stiff wire brush was not cutting the crud.

    Called Sunnen and ordered a new bezel and crystal, not cheap, but affordable. I might have been able to order a new crystal from Long Island indicator, but reading there website I'm just not sure if it requires a crystal press to install, and I don't have one of those, so ordering from Sunnen seemed like best option.

    I did inquire about the rubber tip (P# MBB-705A), since that is missing on mine, they quoted $150+, seems kinda pricey for a piece of rubber smaller than a pea? Anyone know what that rubber tip looks like, or have another replacement option?

    Side note, accidentally knocked can of PB into honing oil sump yesterday, lifting it out it had a 3" wide x foot long snot ball of old oil attached to it. Not sure how old honing oil has to be to get that consistency, think I'll pour in a gallon or 2 of diesel to thin it out so it will drain.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails sunnen-3.jpg  

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    emporium pa
    Posts
    372
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    20
    Likes (Received)
    123

    Default

    I have Sunnen MBB also and use it often. Great machines and like the others I prefer the Sunnen Mandrels and stones. I had a Superior hone years ago and it came with a nice set of mandrels and stones. I kept them but sold the machine. There was with the stuff an adapter to use the two stone Superior mandrels in the Sunnen Spindle. A nice advantage is that the stones are wide and can hone past a keyway or notch in the bore and not harm the stone. They also have a bigger range per mandrel than the Sunnen's. I think they are more difficult to feel the cutting action and keeping the stones true is not so easy either. I like having both but the Sunnen mandrels/stones are my first choice. Nice score for a hundred bucks.
    spaeth

  17. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  18. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Call Sunnen and get the price for a MBB707A that would be a complete indicator, that may be what they quoted. By the looks of the picture you may be better off with a new indicator.

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default

    She read back P# and description "cushion indicator tip", said they keep them in stock $151 or $152 iirc. The bezel and crystal they don't keep in stock, were priced much lower.

    Dropped indicator into jar of mineral spirits last night, 3 hours later noticed it did not seem to be dissolving the dried oil so I switched it to acetone. Looking at it this morning does not seem the acetone is doing much either? Bezel soaked in acetone did not come out clean either, required scrubbing with brush to remove the coating.

    Exterior of indicator has a heavy coating of dried oil, or maybe black paint? Honestly can't tell, I'm leaning toward dried oil because who would paint the knurled knob for bezel lock?

    Interior (works) of indicator look pretty clean, what you see in pic above is the area covered by face, oil had obviously seeped thru crystal/bezel and pooled behind face, then dried.

    Without old rubber indicator tip I'm just not sure what to look for, maybe its just a plain rubber indicator tip, maybe there is something special about it, I just don't know. I'm thinking I can make a whole lot of tips with a couple pints of 2 part urethane, or just carve something out of a pencil eraser and superglue it in place? I'm bleeding $$ right now buying tooling, $150 for a spec of rubber seems crazy.

    Edit: Called again to make sure when price was quoted I did not mistake $1.51 for $151. Todays price, just for indicator tip is $148, whole new indicator (P# MBB-707A) is $184. That is crazy!

  20. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    That is not the first time I have seen repair parts priced that way. A new indicator would solve all the issues you are dealing with on you old unit. New bezel, new card,, and new rubber indicator tip.

  21. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  22. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Tennessee USA
    Posts
    698
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    341
    Likes (Received)
    413

    Default

    As a LAST resort to dissolving old oil/crud that has gummed up the movement I have a suggestion. Do this ONLY if you're prepared to toss it as I can't guarantee the results with precision movement. I've used Pine-Sol with great results on things when nothing else seemed to work. I use it diluted 50/50 on steel and brass with no perceptible damage. Do NOT use on painted, printed, or rubber components as it may remove material. You can try it full strength but it can/will begin to dissolve zinc die casting surfaces. It's sounds like snake oil but it may work for you IF you've exhausted all your choices and are prepared to toss it. Wash afterwards with water and use lighter fluid liberally while working movement to replace water present. If you do this would be interested in results. Nice buy for $100. I used to work in San Marcos while living in Lockhart/Bastrop 25 years ago, miss the BBQ.

  23. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  24. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    jacksonville,fl.
    Posts
    1,101
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    925
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    I'm pretty sure that the indicators are made by Federal(no way to confirm but side by side it looks identical).I had to do the same with mine when I first got it.Had to replace the dial face also as the paint was bad.Looked like new when done.

  25. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  26. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1016
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AD Design View Post
    I used to work in San Marcos while living in Lockhart/Bastrop 25 years ago, miss the BBQ.
    The only thing I miss about Texas, is the BBQ!

    New bearings installed in the belt idlers, and that took care of the growling bearing noise, she runs nice and smooth and quiet now,

    Acetone soak got rid of the gummy oil (and the black paint on exterior of indicator), just waiting on new bezel/crystal to arrive, but I think its going to work fine. Looked at Federal indicators, yes pretty sure that is who made these, thanks for the tip, they sell cheap on ebay, I'll get one or 2 for spares. Not seeing the rubber tips (I have a whole assortment of metal tips), thinking about it I cannot see why a rubber tip is needed. I think I'll throw caution to the wind and go rubberless.

    Edit: Anyone familiar with Superior SK series mandrels? There were several in mandrel collection that was purchased, do not see stones for this series from TA, and no mention of them in old Superior literature. WAG is that they are similar to the DM series (no DM mandrel to compare to, yet), they are very short mandrels, but same 2 stone design, marked Superior Hone Corp.

  27. Likes ratbldr427 liked this post
  28. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    224
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    The rubber tip is used as a shock absorb-er to keep the needle from wiggling. Live on the wild side with a little unsafe honing

  29. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •