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0t------saving the Mayflower----1620

JHOLLAND1

Titanium
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Location
western washington state
400 years ago this month the 3 masted dutch freighter--Mayflower left Leiden Netherlands
for the New World

mid way thru the voyage of 66 days a storm fractured the transverse oak main beam of
25 foot length--this threatened to destabilize the main mast with loss of ship consequences

a miracle category event--inclusion of a "great iron screw" by a passenger possibly violating
baggage weight restriction--saved the ship from probable disaster--the main beam was elevated
and secured

details of construction of the iron screw are lost--as is the devise

one pic --from a Mayflower museum exhibt--offers a likely qualifier
while another puts forth more conventional lead screw geometry
 

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Bear with me this is a 60+ year old memory. I have a recollection of seeing a movie about the Mayflower/Pilgrims probably in the late 1950's. In the movie the screw used to jack the beam back up was part of a printing press, one of those single platen affairs.
David
 
Neither story makes any sense.

Masts are stepped on the keel, not on deck.

Deck beams would not be made of oak.

Deck beams don't even touch the mast, have nothing to do with stabilizing it in any way. There's a space between the mast and the decks, with canvas attached at both edges to keep water from running down the mast into the interior. Masts are kept in place by the rigging.

It wouldn't sink the boat even if they did lose the mast, just makes it a lot slower to get anywhere. Masts are just sticks to hold the sails up, have no structural funcion at all.

Doesn't pass the sniff test.
 
The picture from museum looks more like a carriage jack with a rack and pinion of some sort, I'm not seeing a screw in there outside of the small fasteners. I realize this is just to be an example, but it seems a poor one?
 
I don't think Mayflower sailed from Leiden, although some of the settlers certainly came from there to England in the Speedwell. The Mayflower made several false starts but eventually sailed from Plymouth. The accounts of the voyage that I have read seem to confuse the 'mast' and a 'main beam'. A crack in a beam sounds more likely and the use of a screw jack to support this seems credible.
 
And of course the legend, somewhat unsubstantiated that the Mayflower made a return to England and was dismantled and used to construct a barn in Jordans, England.

End of the Mayflower — MayflowerHistory.com
The Mayflower returned to England from Plymouth Colony, arriving back on 9 May 1621. Christopher Jones took the ship out on a trading voyage to Rochelle, France, in October 1621, returning with a cargo of Bay salt. Christopher Jones, master and quarter-owner of the Mayflower, died and was buried at Rotherhithe, co. Surrey, England, on 5 March 1621/2. No further record of the Mayflower is found until May 1624, when it was appraised for the purposes of probate and was described as being in ruinis. The ship was almost certainly sold off as scrap.

The claim, first originating from J. Rendel Harris' book The Finding of the Mayflower (1920), that the Mayflower ended up as a barn in Jordans, England, is now widely discredited as being a figment of an overzealous imagination on the tercentenary anniversary of the Mayflower's voyage, combined with a tainted oral history. None of the evidence has withstood subsequent investigation. Regardless of the lack of evidence for its authenticity, it has been featured in National Geographic on several occasions and is a tourist destination. It is important to realize that in 1624, when the ship was scrapped, it was not at all famous, and nobody would have thought twice about letting it rot away.

The "Mayflower Barn" in Jordans, England. This barn was identified in the 1920s as having been made from the remnants of the Mayflower. The evidence is entirely unconvincing, but that has not stopped it from becoming a tourist attraction nonetheless. Image courtesy of Wikipedia Commons.

B3-EP378_PENN_1_M_20190729132349.jpg


Joe in NH
Who claims about 1/4 of the original pilgrims as ancestors.
Southeastern Massachusetts is (or was) like that.
 
............. It is important to realize that in 1624, when the ship was scrapped, it was not at all famous, and nobody would have thought twice about letting it rot away.
..........

They probably would not have let valuable material rot away, "re-use" was a common everyday obvious thing to do in those times.

It probably DID supply materials for "something", but not necessarily that, or any, barn.
 
They probably would not have let valuable material rot away, "re-use" was a common everyday obvious thing to do in those times.

It probably DID supply materials for "something", but not necessarily that, or any, barn.

The original Congregational Church here in Stratham NH was built in 1841 - typical of the style of most of these. Standing building, church tower at one end, pulpit at the other, porch steps across the front, balcony in the sanctuary directly over the front doors but below the steeple.

1841 is the date, but it was very plainly made from the 1760 era meetinghouse that preceded it on the same site. One can go in the basement and remove the suspended ceiling and see the mortise holes from the previous construction - now all unused.

And while now difficult to determine, one might imagine that 1760 meetinghouse was built from parts of the original 1716 meetinghouse on the same site - a building which was necessary before a town could petition the State Government for "townhood."

The old time farmers didn't waste a thing. To pit saw a board was an all day affair for two men. It is no wonder one of the earliest "mechanisms" in town was a reciprocating saw mill and pond in the bottom of the valley below the church. The sawmill is gone, but it exists in pictures showing the large 1814 dated house behind it in the background - a house today which is an antique store.

Funny how frequently the largest houses in town were built from and associated with sawmills. Milling must have been a lucrative employment?

Eric Sloane's "A Reverence for Wood" comes to mind.

"From the cradle you occupied as a child to the tools you lived your life with to the coffin which contained you at the end, you were literally surrounded by wood."

Joe in NH
 
Fractured transverse main beam? Like EmmanuelGoldstein pointed out, this does not make sense. A contemporary (Architectura Navalis") layout of a dutch cargo "fluyt" would look something like this:
DSC00480.jpg

The main mast rests on the keelson that rests on the floortimbers that rests on the keel. Fore- and Mizzen mast rests on quarter deck. The masts are held in place by the stays. There is a frame around the mast where it passes through deck. This frame is braced against the deck beams. Wedges are often used to secure the mast in this frame.

Not sure of what actually happened onboard "Mayflower" but apparently the jack helped them sort out a serious situation.

Lars (boatswain)
 
Joe in NH
Who claims about 1/4 of the original pilgrims as ancestors.
Southeastern Massachusetts is (or was) like that.

Interesting. In New England people claim the Mayflower while here they claim Cherokee blood, even though the the ones around here were mostly Osage.

Bill
 
Interesting. In New England people claim the Mayflower while here they claim Cherokee blood, even though the the ones around here were mostly Osage.

Bill

A little off topic, but in the 1980s "Yankee Magazine" did an article about the "dilution of genetics."

Back after the Revolutionary War, it became a "fad" to have been connected somehow to the Nation's Founders - perhaps this a luxury of being a "winner" - that is besides getting to write the history books? Similarly, to build on "connection" came the "Sons of the Revolution" (SAR) and the "Daughters of the Revolution" (DAR) You had to have a blood kin living or dead who had a connection to the Revolutionary Army. Membership in either of these held a certain social "cachet" and like all social clubs, those who were members somehow thought themselves somehow "more special?"

That is a human trait - form a club and make entrance hurdle just selective enough to keep the "riff-raff" out?

As was explained in the article, in the 1980 world, the SAR had sort of "petered out" with a decline in membership, numbers of activities, competition with an existing social cachet of men as "breadwinner," not to mention competition in the early 20th century with other "men's clubs" and our modern lifestyle. The social cachet for the SAR was effectively lost as men found other amusements, and increasing roles elsewhere socially.

Meanwhile, the DAR was still going strong as women had generally less social outlets - although by the 1980s their bread-winning diversion had also increased - but so had their potential membership.

As the article explained, with each generation the numbers of people who can claim to be "connected" to a Revolutionary War participant increases by a multiplication factor of two. Eventually given genetic mixing, EVERYONE will have a connection to the American Revolutionary War - and US residents who don't have this connection will be the exception. Talk about death to social cachet! If you can't be special - why bother trying?

The article then brought that thought a step further and opined that in about 10 generations, the genetic diversity of intermarriage outweighs any original trait or transmission, simply on the basis of generalized adoption within the population. A successful trait in 10 generations tends to be transferred to all (with a corresponding decrease in social cachet) and an unsuccessful trait tends to die out before any social cachet can be formed in the first place.

Also exampled was the fact that the organization "Sons and Daughters of the Pilgrims" was, after about 14 generations, almost universal in their membership acceptance. Less than 3 percent who apply are rejected - although this may follow more to the interest of those who seek admission. Their organizational social cachet is LONG GONE. It is very difficult today to find anyone who is NOT connected to the Pilgrims.

Of course I spoke earlier about having much of my genetic make-up having come over on the Mayflower. Perhaps I should not mention that my last name was the surname of 40 percent of the population Bridgewater, MA (from where I originate) in 1840? It was a small town then with limited betrothal choice. I have a lot of "repeats" on my family tree (i.e. sign of intermarriage within family.)

Joe in NH
 
Considering that I am low country German and Saxon English with trace amounts of Huguenot French, someone who had gotten into genealogy told me that it was mathematically impossible for me to not be a direct descendant of William The Conqueror. With all the generations since 1066, there are multiple connections that if you could trace them would make a path back to him.

Bill
 
There is an explanation for how a transverse beam can affect the stability of the mast. As stated earlier the mast is stepped on the keel and supported by the rigging.
But the rigging has to be attached to something which is generally dead-eyes on plates either side of the mast at or around deck level. A transverse beam cracked at this level could conceivably allow rigging attachments to become unstable and threaten the security of the mast.
Also, there is no reason why the beam shouldn't have beam oak, in fact it's the most likely timber to have been used.
 








 
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