Thread: 0T---soviet nc machines 1985

Автоматизация производства, 1985 - YouTube

JHolland -

Interesting video. The other day I saw on YouTube one about the former East German - guess it is what one would call a corvette class vessel - that is at the museum ship USS Massachusetts site. It was built in mid 80s in Leningrad I believe they said. In showing the fire control for one of the gun systems it was analog - a maze of gears. That technology went out for us years before, digital by that point. Again, if I remember my training on the fire control system in an M-60 series tank - I was schooled on that one in 1972 - the ballistic computer for gun tube super elevation was analog, but of course an earlier 60s design.

Been a bit of conversion from gears to electrons in our lifetimes for sure.

Dale

Originally Posted by JHOLLAND1

Автоматизация производства, 1985 - YouTube

Interesting how in 1985 they still didn't have Kodachrome.....

The manual lathe at 6:25 looks like a very nice machine.

that looks like 16k20, they still make them I think, smallest one would be around 16x28 in inches and around 6000 pounds - more here if interested 16К20 Станок токарно-винторезный универсальный. Паспорт, руководство, схемы, описание, характеристики , Chrome translates that page quite well

Originally Posted by duckfarmer27

JHolland -

Interesting video. The other day I saw on YouTube one about the former East German - guess it is what one would call a corvette class vessel - that is at the museum ship USS Massachusetts site. It was built in mid 80s in Leningrad I believe they said. In showing the fire control for one of the gun systems it was analog - a maze of gears. That technology went out for us years before, digital by that point. ..........

EMP won't bother gears.......

Cool to see robotic loaders that far back.

Lights out Comrads!

Originally Posted by JST

EMP won't bother gears.......

Yeah - but. Started laughing on that one.

Think I've told the 1970s story when we were doing the B-52 upgrade on here before so won't repeat it. But it always amazes me how people will go down rabbit holes trying to solve a problem that is really immaterial since nothing is left - so they chase their tail.

Dale

The USS New Jersey, even after it's last rebuild, I believe still used analog, geared, fire control computers on it's 16" guns.

Bob

That's a very interesting video (just finished after watching bits at a time). It's got the feel of something produced in the 60's or 70's, but that's from my "US-centric" view, of course.

Funny how they "borrowed" some Alan Parsons Project riffs for the soundtrack...

USSR metal working machines were very popular here due to large subsidies and low prices .....they were also quite solid machines .....All that ended with the fall of the USSR,and no more subsidies. .....the only import machines to survive were the Belarus tractors.,and they didnt last long ,as I believe the factory was sold to an oligarch ,and closed down.

Originally Posted by john.k

USSR metal working machines were very popular here due to large subsidies and low prices .....they were also quite solid machines .....All that ended with the fall of the USSR,and no more subsidies. .....the only import machines to survive were the Belarus tractors.,and they didnt last long ,as I believe the factory was sold to an oligarch ,and closed down.

I had no idea that the USSR had exported machines as I previously worked with German machine tool builders who exported much of their production to the USSR. They loved this business as they were paid list price at the border and did not need to install the machines or provide warranty as the machines went to secret military production sites. They went bankrupt when the USSR collapsed.

Originally Posted by JST

EMP won't bother gears.......

EMP will not bother vacuum tubes either. A Russian pilot defected with his MIG in the 80s and the US was initially dissing their use of vacuum tubes, until we realized this was done to allow the Russian planes to operate in close proximity to the big bang, until the pilot cooked.

Originally Posted by duckfarmer27

JHolland -

Interesting video. The other day I saw on YouTube one about the former East German - guess it is what one would call a corvette class vessel - that is at the museum ship USS Massachusetts site. It was built in mid 80s in Leningrad I believe they said. In showing the fire control for one of the gun systems it was analog - a maze of gears. That technology went out for us years before, digital by that point. Again, if I remember my training on the fire control system in an M-60 series tank - I was schooled on that one in 1972 - the ballistic computer for gun tube super elevation was analog, but of course an earlier 60s design.

Been a bit of conversion from gears to electrons in our lifetimes for sure.

Dale

The first step towards electrons was analog logic via vacuum tubes. for example the B29 remote controlled turrets used analog logic with tubes. While digital logic with tubes was a nightmare, analog logic with tubes is elegant. I am building a fuel injection system for my hotrod flatheads using military surplus tubes from the Army Air Corp. A single tube is the complete computer, with one grid of the pentode suppressing fuel flow as RPM is reduced, one grid reduces fuel flow as manifold pressure is reduced, and one is tied to an EGT sensor to reduce fuel flow after cold start. Vibration is no issue at the tubes used in military aircraft were rated to withstand 500G acceleration. The Navy actually had 600G tubes for use near the 16in. guns. But really cool were the miniature microwave tubes used in the proximity fuses for navel anti-aircraft shells. I have no idea how many Gs they could withstand.

Originally Posted by Dr. Hillbilly

EMP will not bother vacuum tubes either. A Russian pilot defected with his MIG in the 80s and the US was initially dissing their use of vacuum tubes, until we realized this was done to allow the Russian planes to operate in close proximity to the big bang, until the pilot cooked.

If that was the MiG that landed in Japan I friend of mine who was an electrical Engineer ad worked for the CIA interview the Pilot and inspected the plane, she noted the lovers dispel the heat and tubes plane was heavy rugged and she noted tubes and EMP

Originally Posted by Dr. Hillbilly

The first step towards electrons was analog logic via vacuum tubes. for example the B29 remote controlled turrets used analog logic with tubes. While digital logic with tubes was a nightmare, analog logic with tubes is elegant. I am building a fuel injection system for my hotrod flatheads using military surplus tubes from the Army Air Corp. A single tube is the complete computer, with one grid of the pentode suppressing fuel flow as RPM is reduced, one grid reduces fuel flow as manifold pressure is reduced, and one is tied to an EGT sensor to reduce fuel flow after cold start. Vibration is no issue at the tubes used in military aircraft were rated to withstand 500G acceleration. The Navy actually had 600G tubes for use near the 16in. guns. But really cool were the miniature microwave tubes used in the proximity fuses for navel anti-aircraft shells. I have no idea how many Gs they could withstand.

This sounds quite cool, but wouldn't the responses be "relatively" linear, or uniformly curved? My understanding of fuel delivery is that ideally it's not a linear progression, but tuned to match the wave dynamics of gas flow in both intake and exhaust, which aren't linear with RPM changes.

When you get your system running I hope you'll make a video of the setup, I'd love to see it.

Originally Posted by Milland

This sounds quite cool, but wouldn't the responses be "relatively" linear, or uniformly curved? My understanding of fuel delivery is that ideally it's not a linear progression, but tuned to match the wave dynamics of gas flow in both intake and exhaust, which aren't linear with RPM changes.

When you get your system running I hope you'll make a video of the setup, I'd love to see it.

Sounds kind of like a pentode, one of the inputs on the grid the other on the screen, using the tube to ramp the fuel pump between "full" and "low", or even just switch it between them. I like the coupled use of grid and screen. Dealing with the voltages seems like a lot of work compared to a couple transistors but then again tubes are fun...

Originally Posted by Milland

This sounds quite cool, but wouldn't the responses be "relatively" linear, or uniformly curved? My understanding of fuel delivery is that ideally it's not a linear progression, but tuned to match the wave dynamics of gas flow in both intake and exhaust, which aren't linear with RPM changes.
........

Tubes are not linear either. it would be possible to "use" that, but it might change with age as the gains change due to cathode emission changing. The problem then is that stabilizing gains etc with feedback, which helps that, also tends to linearize the response, so you lose the ability to use nonlinearities.

I think he's running the tube open loop as a switch.

Originally Posted by john.k

USSR metal working machines were very popular here due to large subsidies and low prices .....they were also quite solid machines .....All that ended with the fall of the USSR,and no more subsidies. .....the only import machines to survive were the Belarus tractors.,and they didnt last long ,as I believe the factory was sold to an oligarch ,and closed down.

John,
There are plenty of USSR machine tools in NZ too, the importer was C.W.F. Hamilton. Mills, lathes, surface grinders, shapers and probably more. Old shapers and mills still come up for sale regularly. The Russian surface grinder I used back in the late 1970's was a good machine. The big Russian shapers look to be nice machines.

NZ wanted to sell dairy (and other?) products to the USSR. So quite a few Lada's and Niva's arrived here. Not sure how it worked but I guess Russia had limited US$ and we had lots of milk powder so a deal was done.

And lots of TOS machinery from Czechoslovakia. And Skoda's...

Based on the success of the Land Rover, a NZ'er tried his hand at building a vaguely similar vehicle - The Trekka. But it only had rear wheel drive, optional diff lock and was pretty crappy in most respects. The only manufacturer who would supply the running gear was Skoda. A complete Skoda floor pan on which a locally manufacturer body was fitted.