14" Lodge and Shipley Model X introduction and oiling issue
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  1. #1
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    Default 14" Lodge and Shipley Model X introduction and oiling issue

    Hello everyone, new to the forums. I'm also fairly inexperienced to the world of machining. I have a number of hours running a friends lathe under my belt, but that's about the extent. No classes, training, or certification. So there may be a silly question or two I will ask along my journey here. I will say I am very mechanically inclined, and have a lot of experience working with mechanics of different sorts.

    I just recently aquired this 14" Lodge and Shipley Model X.



    Its been refitted with a single phase 10 horse motor to run on 220. I just got it wired, and fired. After the initial wipe down, the next step was to get on top of oiling and lubrication. It was a bit of a red flag the previous owner knew little to nothing about the lathe, and had no idea what, if any oil was in it. On a positive note he used it very little if at all. This unit used to be in a Gates facility, hence the awful paint job.

    So anyways, I have a question I figured I'd ask while I was also searching for the answer. Through a very messy process of trial and elimination, I have come to the conclusion the oil pump is running backwards.

    In this picture the green arrow represents what I believe SHOULD be the intake, and the orange the output from the pump. At the moment is is pulling oil from the orange arrow tube, and pushing it to the green arrow, or down into the sump area.



    I have read about the possibility of it being wired incorrectly, and turning the pump the wrong direction. But there is little to no information on where to start to remedy the situation. I obviously don't want to cause harm to the machine, so here I am.


    Anyways, I imagine I will be roaming around this place a lot in the months to come.

    Thanks,


    Eric

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    Since this post I have come to the conclusion that my lathe was wired incorrectly when the last owner had it retrofitted with a new motor. It is indeed running backwards. After examining the clutch linkage I found out there is a reverse lock out on the rear of the machine. Im in the process of righting this wrong, so my machine can lubricate itself.

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    Please post some pics of it!

    1 phase motor in a lathe of that caliber? sigh....

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    Top of chuck MUST turn towards you when clutch lever is pulled UP

    Orange line goes to flow sight (if I recall correctly) on front face of head stock - and it must show flow when motor is running

    Pipe plug on back of head stock in your photo area is for pump priming

    You will find two level sights on sump casting

    There is no oil in head stock

    Head stock lube should be ISO 46 - such as Mobil DTE Medium

    The 10 HP - if a copy of the original motor in power - suggests top speed on your 14" is 1160. There were also 15 HP with 1740 top and 20 HP with 2000 top

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Top of chuck MUST turn towards you when clutch lever is pulled UP

    Orange line goes to flow sight (if I recall correctly) on front face of head stock - and it must show flow when motor is running

    Pipe plug on back of head stock in your photo area is for pump priming

    You will find two level sights on sump casting

    There is no oil in head stock

    Head stock lube should be ISO 46 - such as Mobil DTE Medium

    The 10 HP - if a copy of the original motor in power - suggests top speed on your 14" is 1160. There were also 15 HP with 1740 top and 20 HP with 2000 top

    Hey John,

    Yes that is the conclusion I eventually got to with the engage lever. I'm still reading what little literature I can get my hands on for it, but there's a lot of small details left out of the original paperwork. When I test drove it at the gentlemens shop, he pushed the lever down to engage correct rotation. I of course didn't know any better at the time. With the cover to the head removed I was able to analyze the transmission, and eventually find the reverse "lock out" on the rear of the machine. It also didn't help that there's a plaque on the front that says it is locked in forward motion only as to not cause damage.

    I've already been all over this lathe draining what little oil was in it for fresh.

    From what I understand this lathe was originally 10 horse, 1160 rpm, so this replacement will keep me with the original capabilities of the machine. I don't have 3 phase in my shop, and didn't really want to mess with a converter. So the single phase was a selling point for me. Originally I had my eyes on a couple of Grizzly lathes here locally, but they at my surprise sell REALLY fast. A friend of mine who runs a hydraulic fitting shop saw this listed, and told me for the money, I wont be able to find a better lathe than this L & S. So far its been a good amount of fun getting the apron, and tooling freed up from the positions I assume they've been in for 30+ years. I like antiques, so getting to spend 20+ hours on this machine before I even get to start using it as intended is a good time for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Please post some pics of it!

    1 phase motor in a lathe of that caliber? sigh....

    The motor that's on it now is an equivalent to the original. Both are 10 horse.

    I will post more pictures of it soon here. Still working on getting it cleaned up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Top of chuck MUST turn towards you when clutch lever is pulled UP

    Orange line goes to flow sight (if I recall correctly) on front face of head stock - and it must show flow when motor is running

    Pipe plug on back of head stock in your photo area is for pump priming

    You will find two level sights on sump casting

    There is no oil in head stock

    Head stock lube should be ISO 46 - such as Mobil DTE Medium

    The 10 HP - if a copy of the original motor in power - suggests top speed on your 14" is 1160. There were also 15 HP with 1740 top and 20 HP with 2000 top

    Hey John, I had a reply typed out, I don't know where it went.

    Anyways,

    Yes I did play around with it enough to learn about the lock out feature on the clutch linkage. When the gentlemen I bought it from showed me what he knew about it (which was VERY, VERY little), he pushed down on the lever for forward operation, and at the time I was none the wiser (neither was he turns out). He's the one that paid to have it converted with a new single phase motor to plug into his shop. It was one of the selling points for me, as I don't have 3 phase in my shop, and don't want to mess with a converter. The issue is whoever he hired to do the job, didn't take into consideration the direction it needed to spin. THANKFULLY I don't think he used it much at all, so the damage from the incorrect oil cycling could be minimal.

    I will have some more pics soon. I've been busy freeing up stuck parts, finding oiling ports, draining old oil for new etc. My main focus was figuring out the oiling situation before I just started using it. I'm told I have a very nice old lathe, the last thing I want to do is screw it up.

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    Looks like the right manuals here

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/3560.pdf

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/3561.pdf

    On the op I went by the picture and on the parts I went by the 41XXX serial

    Thumbnails from the one I had
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_1086.jpg   dcp_1088.jpg   dcp_1089.jpg   dcp_1090.jpg   dcp_1091.jpg  


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    And some more
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_1092.jpg   dcp_1093.jpg   dcp_1094.jpg   dcp_1095.jpg  

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    Great start to the day! Got my electrician over this morning, and rewired the motor to spin in the correct direction. And man does it pump oil!

    I've attached a few pictures here. She's in her permanent home now. I've also attached a few extra pictures to show some of the tooling it came with. 2 3 jaw chucks, a 4 jaw chuck, number of cutting bits, and a nice beefy quick change McCroskey tool holder.

    Now that I'm oiled, and have a grasp on how to operate the machine, its time to get to work!


    68619322_371690887056002_9008307811569893376_n.jpg 68787781_1582611208536665_1605901844071055360_n.jpg 67947365_331866954362043_7502033527840440320_n.jpg 67928797_2438093169849190_1489251653298159616_n.jpg 62140883_2421067738126154_8532000959260262400_n-1-.jpg

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    Fantastic information John. I really appreciate you taking the time to post that stuff up. There is so little out there when you search for this model of lathe.

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    When you are feeling flush, get an Aloris CA for it

    The 14 is at least a 16 1/2 actual

    Serial is right end in between two REAR ways - maybe starts with 41 - five digits stamped into machined cast iron

    Those outer ways are hardened and ground and bolt on

    Do use lots of common sense around this thing - its a flesh and bone gobbler for the unwary

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    When you are feeling flush, get an Aloris CA for it

    The 14 is at least a 16 1/2 actual

    Serial is right end in between two REAR ways - maybe starts with 41 - five digits stamped into machined cast iron

    Those outer ways are hardened and ground and bolt on

    Do use lots of common sense around this thing - its a flesh and bone gobbler for the unwary

    I found a stamped number, but its 8 digits on the end of the gearbox.

    68279977_359937864700074_264155048643133440_n.jpg

    Reads 53-112-100


    I have a good healthy fear of lathes. I've seen enough industrial accident videos to know what this thing can do to me. No loose clothes, tucked in shirt, all the precautions lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atc-Eric View Post
    I found a stamped number, but its 8 digits on the end of the gearbox.

    68279977_359937864700074_264155048643133440_n.jpg

    Reads 53-112-100


    I have a good healthy fear of lathes. I've seen enough industrial accident videos to know what this thing can do to me. No loose clothes, tucked in shirt, all the precautions lol.
    Wrong number. The serial number, as John said, is located at the end of the bed, tailstock end, between the flat and vee on the backside of the bed. It will be a five-digit number with no dashes.

    BTW- the L & S pictures is of the one I bought from John and completely went thru and re-condition to near new. It had a lot of miles on it, but still cut like a hog and left nice finishes in the time I had it. It now resides in a lean-to, open to the south, getting all kinds of dirt, rain, etc., down in Laredo, Texas. Search PM for the threads related to John and my L & S lathe. The carriage/saddle has a network of oil passage holes that distribute oil to all sorts of moving parts. The little oil pump in the apron is really not big enough to supply the oil needed to lubricate the entire carriage. Especially if it is filthy and dirty in the apron as it was on our L & S. Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    Wrong number. The serial number, as John said, is located at the end of the bed, tailstock end, between the flat and vee on the backside of the bed. It will be a five-digit number with no dashes.

    BTW- the L & S pictures is of the one I bought from John and completely went thru and re-condition to near new. It had a lot of miles on it, but still cut like a hog and left nice finishes in the time I had it. It now resides in a lean-to, open to the south, getting all kinds of dirt, rain, etc., down in Laredo, Texas. Search PM for the threads related to John and my L & S lathe. The carriage/saddle has a network of oil passage holes that distribute oil to all sorts of moving parts. The little oil pump in the apron is really not big enough to supply the oil needed to lubricate the entire carriage. Especially if it is filthy and dirty in the apron as it was on our L & S. Ken

    I will look again for the numbers in the AM. That's a damned shame about your old machine. I cannot stand leaving anything outside. I don't even like my flatbed trailer exposed to the elements.

    I took it for a nice healthy test drive this afternoon. From what I can tell everything functions on it as it should. I took a gamble on this machine, and it appears it has paid out.

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    Curiosity got the best of me.

    Serial number: 41469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atc-Eric View Post
    Curiosity got the best of me.

    Serial number: 41469
    Early in 1954 - already up to retirement age

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Early in 1954 - already up to retirement age
    Cool to know what year it came from exactly. And if I can help it, this lathe is in its retirement home. I'm not good at getting rid of cool stuff.

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    Wow! That is almost 500 numbers different from the one John and I had. I thing it was somewhere around 41967. Correct me John if I'm wrong, if you still remember.

    If anyone is interested in the one I rebuilt, it is for sale. The new owner also has a Model A of the same size, just about 15 years older. Imagine two of them together exact same size with the same equipment. Ken

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    You just switched a pair of digits Ken - 41697 says the old email folder. A 20 standard and - quite unusual - a gap bed. Don't know if block was ever out.

    Thumbnails a bit older before the hard outer ways returned to prismatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    Wow! That is almost 500 numbers different from the one John and I had. I thing it was somewhere around 41967. Correct me John if I'm wrong, if you still remember.

    If anyone is interested in the one I rebuilt, it is for sale. The new owner also has a Model A of the same size, just about 15 years older. Imagine two of them together exact same size with the same equipment. Ken
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails brochure-scan-01.jpg   brochure-scan-02.jpg   brochure-scan-03.jpg   brochure-scan-04.jpg   brochure-scan-05.jpg  


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