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16" Garvin metal shaper

M

Moblacksmith0530

Plastic
Joined
Apr 20, 2012
Location
Missouri USA
I just acquired a 16" shaper that says "made for the Garvin machine company" on the cover plate for the bellcrank housing. I found a lot of documentation for Garvin machinery but NOTHING for a shaper, they seemed to be big in milling but not a lot else, so I am wondering if anyone has more information. I am thinking it was made by some other company for Garvin. I would love to find a manual for this one although I think I can make a go of it with some generic shaper manuals I have found online.
 
DeSelle said:
There are a lot of Garvin lovers here. Please post pictures
Click to expand...

Surely MUST be ... somewhere!

Just highlight the term "Garvin lover", RMB the pop-up menu, select "search Google for..."

and:

About 4,490,000 results (0.28 seconds)


Mind either of "Bill Gates" or "kinky sex" will get closer to four HUNDRED million returns in 0.28 seconds.

Go figure why they have about the same figures... ???
 
Oh I looked for Garvin manuals and like I said it seems heavily weighted towards milling machines and I didn't find a single mention of shaper in the 45 minutes I spent reading the hits.
 
I will definitely do that, I spent the day getting the contraption the prior owner had mounted in place of the knee (I think that is what its called) making the bolts to mount the knee back to the machine and struggled to mount the vise only to discover it is missing the base plate. I did clamp up a piece using t slot dogs and shaved a little metal. Long way to go before I get it properly. Going to have to find or build a base plate to mount the vise.
 

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Moblacksmith0530 said:
I will definitely do that, I spent the day getting the contraption the prior owner had mounted in place of the knee (I think that is what its called) making the bolts to mount the knee back to the machine and struggled to mount the vise only to discover it is missing the base plate. I did clamp up a piece using t slot dogs and shaved a little metal. Long way to go before I get it properly. Going to have to find or build a base plate to mount the vise.
Click to expand...

Ignorant A36 plate is good enough for that. I'd just order a precut already Blanchard-ground. They charge a premium for that vs raw, but it ain't much of one for the convenience.

But before you invest in mounting improvement at all? Can you tell if it at least appears to be the OEM vise meant for that (capacity of) shaper?
 
I do not have any sort of manual for this machine, I did look at the pictures and sales literature that Rob posted and it sure looks like the same vise. It seems like it is too big for this shaper if I compare the t-slots to the hole in the center where the pivot goes into the table. It is the only shaper I own so I may be looking at it all wrong. I looked at the pic from the 1899 pic Rob had and it doesn’t look like there is another plate. So the way I see it even if it fit the t-slots there would only be two positions for the vise 90 degrees apart. I would like to find out how it is supposed to be and how it is supposed to mount so I can figure out if it is the wrong vise or missing a piece.
 
Moblacksmith0530 said:
I do not have any sort of manual for this machine, I did look at the pictures and sales literature that Rob posted and it sure looks like the same vise. It seems like it is too big for this shaper if I compare the t-slots to the hole in the center where the pivot goes into the table. It is the only shaper I own so I may be looking at it all wrong. I looked at the pic from the 1899 pic Rob had and it doesn’t look like there is another plate. So the way I see it even if it fit the t-slots there would only be two positions for the vise 90 degrees apart. I would like to find out how it is supposed to be and how it is supposed to mount so I can figure out if it is the wrong vise or missing a piece.
Click to expand...

90 degrees "only" no "swivel base", was actually dirt-common for pretty much the whole "shaper era".

As with a Horizontal mill and its table, a vise wasn't always even mounted. Tee slots and the usual suspects - plus improvised - of various clamping goods did some of the work, often BETTER for the tasking at hand.

Page Two:

We get uppity and throw virtual rocks at naifs putting milling vises on a shaper.

Sanity check sez nearly all decent milling vises have some form of "pull DOWN" feature.

Meanwhile, almost NO shaper vise has that.

So it isn't always a "bad move", after all.
 
Vise base

So does anyone have a shaper they can get some pics of the mounting for the vise of? I would love to have something to compare to if I need to fabricate something.
 
Moblacksmith0530 said:
So does anyone have a shaper they can get some pics of the mounting for the vise of? I would love to have something to compare to if I need to fabricate something.
Click to expand...

Here's the underside of a 12" Sheldon shaper's OEM vise.

Sheldon_Vise.jpg

Note the two rectangular keys position it ONE WAY ONLY and that they are secured by screws.

If one needs any other angle, they are removed.

There IS a "center hole", BUT even if you open the jaws and place a low-head fastener there, the vise is MEANT to have one or more of the four "ears" aligned with Tee slots on some diagonal angle to do the "real" holding job.

Simple. Good enough for basic shaper working.

Ingenuity, angle plates, dividing heads, yadda, yadda.. the limit, otherwise.
That's why shaper tables have tee slots on the SIDE as well as the top!

Some days? Yah just have to "get creative"!

CAVEAT: "Heavy" cuts not recommended, anything but the keys-in, all four corners soundly secured position.

Not really an issue if doing "detail work". Just take smaller bites, use more strokes. Not all that much stress need be involved.

A shaper's main resource comes from between the operator's ears.

PATIENCE!

:)
 
Thank you very much for the information it is VERY helpful, the base plate for mine is a circle the same diameter as the base of the vise, it also has a hole in the center that fits snuggly onto the round piece that is in the center of the vise base. I do remember their being some slots like your has that the keys are attached to, I am away from home on a job but will be looking at this carefully When I get home Saturday. I can’t thank you enough for the information it is really going to help me figure this out.
Also thanks for the words of encouragement, I am willing and able to get creative just didn’t have an idea of the direction to go it and this is going to help. Once I get the vise mounted I am going to drag my old man out (retired machinist) and have him show me the ropes on this machine.
 
Moblacksmith0530 said:
Once I get the vise mounted I am going to drag my old man out (retired machinist) and have him show me the ropes on this machine.
Click to expand...

You'll be LUCKY if he knows much about shaper working! Basic mills, broaches, and the odd slotter displaced them from most work, speciality mills and planers ate most of the rest, and that was before War Two!

Pelz kept one around because he had been trained to use a shaper and DIY linkages and cams to generate complex curves a mill didn't DOO before CNC.

That work went off to a "cherrying" head at the small and cheap end, or a large and COSTLY purpose built 3-D "tracer mill" designed specifically for generating complex-curved stamping dies - "Kellering" for the machine name - in the curved body and rounded fender auto industry... and not-only.

Kellering | Article about kellering by The Free Dictionary

No fear.

Shapers are straightforwardly honest and simple animals. You Tube actually works pretty well for showing the how of them.

You'll get there.
 
I am already using it to make the vise baseplate, It has not even found its permanent location in the shop yet. The old man knows how t run shapers, he ran them in Korea so he is good with coming out.
 
Moblacksmith0530 said:
I am already using it to make the vise baseplate, It has not even found its permanent location in the shop yet. The old man knows how t run shapers, he ran them in Korea so he is good with coming out.
Click to expand...

Korean war was about when I "got the bug". Little kid, trying to sneak into the machine halls, Watertown Arsenal, then running balls-to-the-walls busy making cannon for the war effort to "see what I could see".

The stench of dark cutting oil may as well have been heroin!

"High tech" for the era was displayed at an open house the Post held for local officials. Square holes in gun carriages.

They demonstrated the "rotary broach" doing what appeared magical. Input shaft going around in circles. Hole going down SQUARE! I already knowed "sumthin' ain't RIGHT about that!"

Or so it seemed "magical" when they called it "DRILLING square holes.."

Because no one EXPLAINED how it worked! "Magic" was still fun, back in the day, y'see.

:D
 
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