16" Lodge and Shipley Advice Needed
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  1. #1
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    Default 16" Lodge and Shipley Advice Needed

    Hello all

    I am going to go look at a 16" L&S lathe around mid week. I only have one hazy picture of it so far, but it looks like it might be the tool room version. The owner describes it at about 16' overall in length and about 5 tons.

    I know that there are a few of you guys on here who are L&S aficionados on these lathes. What should I be looking for, especially as this lathe was never hooked up by the owner and is sitting outside under a lean-to and tarp.

    It's motor is a 10hp 3 phase 575 volts. He has a step up voltage transformer and a 25hp idler motor that he was going to use to build an RPC, but he never got around to it.

    lodge-shipley-lathe.jpg

    Brian

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    Motor should be belt driven, residing in the base, last one I looked at.

    Swap in a 220 volt 3 phase motor, and use the rotophase "Stock".

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    Its a fifties Model X. My 20" Standard (raised 16) had the motor on the back.

    Motor HP depends on top spindle speed - 10 for 1160, 15 for 1740 and 20 for 2000

    Thumbnail is a slightly earlier brochure - before the box ways gave way to the vee. The outer ones are bolt on hardened and ground

    The most important thing to know is that oil is actually being brought up from sump low on back to oil stuff inside HS. There is no oil in headstock.

    The trickiest thing is the forward-brake-reverse clutch lever and the amazing linkage for this on the back of HS

    This is a high class 24 speed three spindle bearing machine

    Due to high input shaft speed (at least 1160) it has a definite PRESENCE in a small shop when running

    "Toolroom" version will have lead screw reverse on apron

    No clutch in input sheave like many - L&S used Fwd and Rev clutch packs

    On Edit - manuals and brochure at VM

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/5671.pdf
    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/3560.pdf
    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2104/3561.pdf
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails brochure-scan-01.jpg   brochure-scan-02.jpg   brochure-scan-03.jpg   brochure-scan-04.jpg   brochure-scan-06.jpg  

    Last edited by johnoder; 09-25-2017 at 09:01 AM.

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    Thank you, John

    That is most helpful and encouraging. If I do purchase this lathe, I'll have to thin the herd to allow space for it. The owner is away moose hunting this week, but I might be able to have a look at it, as it sits outside, under a lean-to. I'll post some pictures if I do.

    Brian

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    Great machines, if they haven't been ridiculously abused. Even with abuse, they are substantial enough to take it for decades and still be a very good machine. The reversing spindle is super handy, once you get it adjusted right and provided nobody has fouled up or disabled any of the works. It has a nice safety built in where you HAVE to go to neutral and then move the lever again in the intended direction to change spindle direction. Just a very well thought out and ridiculously well built machine. If the guys at the chrome shop couldn't kill that big 22" we had, I don't think they can be harmed.

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    Well, that's good to know how stout these lathes are built. I'm not sure if I will be able to go see the lathe this week, as I can't get a hold of the owner for directions. I believe he's in a poor cell phone area, back in the boonies.

    Brian

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    "The most important thing to know is that oil is actually being brought up from sump low on back to oil stuff inside HS. There is no oil in headstock."

    Hi John,

    I will take the headstock cover off, when I go to inspect the lathe, but what, exactly, drives the oil pump? I am assuming that if I take the belt guard off and can turn the bottom pulley by hand, that the oil pump should work.

    If the lathe has been kept under a lean-to roof and a tarp, but out there for at least a year, subject to the change of seasons, should I be manually adding some oil from above before manually operating the oil pump? I'm thinking that some of the bearings might be dry if it has sat idle for that long.

    Brian

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    Hope you're strong. Cover is hefty. Has eye bolt tapped hole top center. Pump is on end of input shaft - a bit more than halfway to front

    Thumbnails show pump and other oily stuff 14, 16 and 20" standard all identical in there

    should I be manually adding some oil from above before manually operating the oil pump? I'm thinking that some of the bearings might be dry if it has sat idle for that long.
    Sounds like a very nice thing to do for an old machine


    Quote Originally Posted by Sachmanram View Post
    "The most important thing to know is that oil is actually being brought up from sump low on back to oil stuff inside HS. There is no oil in headstock."

    Hi John,

    I will take the headstock cover off, when I go to inspect the lathe, but what, exactly, drives the oil pump? I am assuming that if I take the belt guard off and can turn the bottom pulley by hand, that the oil pump should work.

    If the lathe has been kept under a lean-to roof and a tarp, but out there for at least a year, subject to the change of seasons, should I be manually adding some oil from above before manually operating the oil pump? I'm thinking that some of the bearings might be dry if it has sat idle for that long.

    Brian
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_1088.jpg   dcp_1089.jpg   dcp_1090.jpg   dcp_1091.jpg   dcp_1092.jpg  


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    Hello John,

    I'm pretty strong, but if it has a tapped eye bolt hole in the cover, it's there for a reason. Sounds far north of #100 to me. Thanks so much for the clear and concise photos with description of the oiling and clutch/braking system. By studying those pics, I'll have a good idea of what I am looking at when I go to check the lathe out.

    I haven't heard a whisper from the owner, and don't expect to until he comes back from the moose hunt on Sunday. We've had record breaking hot temperatures these last few days, which is not good for moose hunting. Instead of getting rangy, they are looking to cool off in a lake.

    Thanks again, John

    Brian

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    You are entirely welcome.

    Hear are a few more

    Quote Originally Posted by Sachmanram View Post
    Hello John,

    I'm pretty strong, but if it has a tapped eye bolt hole in the cover, it's there for a reason. Sounds far north of #100 to me. Thanks so much for the clear and concise photos with description of the oiling and clutch/braking system. By studying those pics, I'll have a good idea of what I am looking at when I go to check the lathe out.

    I haven't heard a whisper from the owner, and don't expect to until he comes back from the moose hunt on Sunday. We've had record breaking hot temperatures these last few days, which is not good for moose hunting. Instead of getting rangy, they are looking to cool off in a lake.

    Thanks again, John

    Brian
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_1093.jpg   dcp_1094.jpg   dcp_1095.jpg  

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    A few more of sump area. Note twin oil sights on sump - maybe the manual linked in a post above will give you the story on that.

    I thought the sump would have glop and trash - but was clean as a whistle

    Electrical enclosure was hefty

    The board was a natural for getting sump back on

    This 20" Standard was the 10 HP 1160 top end version
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_1083.jpg   dcp_1084.jpg   dcp_1085.jpg   dcp_1086.jpg   dcp_1087.jpg  


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    Well, I am back with an update.... I have bought the lathe.....

    John, your photos and insight made the inspection of the lathe so easy. I knew what I was looking at, especially the headstock, because of it. Thank you, so much



    I made the short trip down to Penobsquis New Brunswick from my home, to meet George, at about noon today. Very pretty rolling countryside for the drive. I liked George right from the start, friendly, helpful and kind and honest. He told me that this lathe came out of the Potash mine that closed down a couple of years ago. The mine had purchased the lathe, but it was never used and was sitting idle, when George ended up with it in an auction bid. It was kind of added to the large lot of piping he was bidding on. He thought that he might use it to turn large wooden bowls with, but decided to get some money out of it instead.

    So, neither one of us have seen it run. His gamble was next to nothing, monetarily, but mine is great...

    I am not at all worried, at this point. I managed to coax 3 out of the 4 cap screws loose, holding the headstock cover on, but the last one was beginning to round over from my effort. George, luckily, had a set of torches at hand, and heated up the area, which freed up the stubborn cap screw. George admitted that this would be the first time the he has seen the inside of the headstock.

    The headstock cover was not really as heavy as it looked, as it is curved inside as well as the outside. It might be #100, but it is possible to damage the oil lines, as well as one gear at the rear left corner, if you are not careful to lift it high enough.If you think that you can simply slide it off..... Noooo .... do not !!

    With the height and position of the cover, it would be wise to utilize the central anchor point to lift the cover. There was a forged lifting eye bolt in place on the cover, and after climbing onto the ways of the lathe. I was able to lift the cover with a few fingers through it and lower it to George and to the ground.

    I feel foolish that I didn't get any pics of inside the headstock. I guess that I was busy inspecting all of the gears and clutches.... But, the insides are pristine, with everything still oily and the gear teeth look like new, with no noticeable wear to my eye. I forgot to bring some oil with me, and didn't try to turn the belts to activate the oil pump, but I am very confident that this lathe is dirty, but looking in real good shape.

    George left the lathe as oily and as dirty as he found it, knowing that to store it, that was the best thing to do. He added many cans of Fluid Film to all of the exposed surfaces as well. It was under a generous overhang and covered with a tarp.

    Here's a few pics that I took this afternoon..

    img_0109-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0113-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0119-1024x768-.jpg

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]209111[/ATTACH

    img_0130-1024x768-.jpg]

    I'll post this for now....

    Thanks for everyone's help

    Brian
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_0122-1024x768-.jpg  

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    Here's a few more pics and information....

    Here's a pic of the Machine # 41609

    img_0143-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0125-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0126-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0127-1024x768-.jpg

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    Looks real promising. Can't wear them out not running

    41609 was 1953 - same as 41697 in the photos I posted

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    Back again....

    This lathe didn't come with much in the way of tooling. There is a 16" 3 jaw Buck chuck and the steady rest. The chuck looks to be in real good shape. The suds pump is missing, but it won't be hard to find something to replace it. The speeds and feeds calculator chart is missing from it's frame, which is a curious thing... not likely to find one of those laying around...

    img_0144-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0132-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0155-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0114-1024x768-.jpg

    It was nice to see that it is equipped with a taper attachment and a threading dial, although the bed clamp is missing from the TA. Not too hard to fabricate something.

    The lathe also came with a large electrical cabinet with gear and buttons that look like it is from something else...

    img_0148-768x1024-.jpg

    Oh, I forgot to add that this lathe is 8' between centers and around 16'long overall.

    Brian

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    That looks a very solid and well made lathe. Made in the era when machine tools were built to last a man's life time.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Nice to see an original steady rest - hard to miss those tail stock ways it was machined for

    Electrical is reversing starter, not needed if the clutch packs are functional.

    I'll bet you know the spindle nose is L1. Walter makes great hook spanners for these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Looks real promising. Can't wear them out not running

    41609 was 1953 - same as 41697 in the photos I posted
    Well, how neat is that...

    I wasn't sure what size of "L" taper that the spindle was. I knew that it was larger than the "LO" series. I did check to make sure that the chuck's taper matched the spindle, and it does. I have seen Walter's hook spanners and will order one for this lathe.

    Tooling this lathe up is going to be expensive, but I am glad to have the one chuck, although, I wish it was a 4 jaw. As it is, the 16" 3 jaw chuck is a Bison chuck that retails for over $4600 new...

    I have a question about the leadscrew and feed rod support brackets. There is one at the end of the bed (tail stock end) and looks to be missing the bottom bracket to support the square control bar.

    img_0145-768x1024-.jpg

    I think that the remains of it are on the control bar. My question.... is this bracket supposed to be attached to the right side of the apron? The left support bracket is intact, and I may be able to reproduce the parts needed to complete the right one.

    Brian

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    Well, it looks like I will have my lathe picked up on Friday afternoon, if all goes according to plan. I am hiring a tilt-and-tow wrecker to move the lathe. I was told by the owner that he thought the lathe weighed in at 10,000 pounds. Does anyone have some positive weight amounts for these lathes?

    Brian

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    Specs in post # 3 say 7600 for 30" centers and 400 more for each additional two feet - for 20", which is only slightly off since its a raised 16"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sachmanram View Post
    Well, it looks like I will have my lathe picked up on Friday afternoon, if all goes according to plan. I am hiring a tilt-and-tow wrecker to move the lathe. I was told by the owner that he thought the lathe weighed in at 10,000 pounds. Does anyone have some positive weight amounts for these lathes?

    Brian


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