16" Lodge and Shipley Advice Needed - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Thank you John

    My computer is on it's last legs and won't completely download some of the links that you posted. So, I am looking at around 8900 lbs. So, not too far off of 10,000 lbs.

    I will try to take lots of pictures of the move, but when I get it into the shop, I will show some pics of inside the headstock.

    Cheers...

    Brian

    Oops.... I now see the specs you are referring to in the last of the 4 thumbnails in post #3...
    Last edited by Sachmanram; 10-04-2017 at 04:17 AM.

  2. #22
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    Here are a few pics of some of the tags on the lathe.

    Banjo cover tag...

    img_0108-1024x768-.jpg

    Clutch adjustment tag on the rear of the headstock. A bit faded but still readable...

    img_0139-1024x768-.jpg

    Front of the headstock tag, with oil types and other important information about the operation of...

    img_0111-1024x768-.jpg

    And finally, one of the motor tag....

    img_0137-1024x768-.jpg

    I'm not quite sure what I will do about the motor. It is rather unfortunate that the original motor and electrics are long gone. The original push button box is still present, so I think that I will try to find a replacement 220v 3 phase motor and build an electrical box to mount on the back of the lathe, much like the original, and feed the front push button box. I might be able to use the push buttons that came with the large electrical box, but I am not sure if they will fit.

    I am off to pick up 20 pieces of 1" bar, 4 feet long, to aid in moving the lathe into my shop. I will also rent a mechanical toe jack for the weekend, so that I can get it turned and moved into it's resting place.

    I am really happy to have found this lathe. They don't come up very often around here, and I just happened to be the first caller, and George has great integrity, and made sure that I had first "kick at the cat". There were several other guys who really wanted the lathe. Mind you, I paid $2200.00 CAD for it, and there is almost no tooling, and the motor issue, but I am still very excited to go pick it up.

    Brian

  3. #23
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    Watch your step with the toe jack. Lathes like that are pretty top heavy and don't need much encouragement to fall over. I'd jack it up 1/2" at a time, a side at a time and slip some packings in as you go. I may be over cautious but I've never tipped a lathe over and I've still got all my fingers.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Nice find!
    I believe Keith Rucker has a very similar L&S 16"(?) lathe he uses in his YouTube videos, when he's over at the Georgia Ag Museum. He's also pretty easy to get ahold of if you had any questions.
    Jeff P

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    Watch your step with the toe jack. Lathes like that are pretty top heavy and don't need much encouragement to fall over. I'd jack it up 1/2" at a time, a side at a time and slip some packings in as you go. I may be over cautious but I've never tipped a lathe over and I've still got all my fingers.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Hy Tyrone

    Thank you for your sage advice. I will likely only use the toe jack to relocate 1" bar stock to roll the lathe on. Raising it just enough to clear the bars to reposition, and right back down on the bar stock. I will be very careful..... the last thing I want to do is tip the lathe.

    My biggest worry, is getting it on the tilt and tow, and getting it back off, safely on my shop floor.

    The weather forecast is for possible showers, so I am bringing a roll of shrink wrap and tape along, as well as lots of binding straps and tools.

    Brian

  8. #26
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    We have a 16 X 54 model A that we have moved a bit and it was a scary sort of thing.

    We used the leveling feet to simply lift the lathe up as rare as the screws would go.

    There are 4 at each end so once up one at a time is screwed all the way back and something shoved under it.

    Repeat until all screws are short then turn them all again lifting lathe up another inch or 2 then add to the spacers.

    We built pallet like bases that allow a pallet jack to be inserted either from front back or end so with 2 pallet jacks we can move it easily.

    Having it up high on blocks then getting the stands under was great fun.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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  10. #27
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    Well, I am happy to report that all went well with the move of the L&S lathe. All three of us worked carefully, thoughtfully, and without any hurry. The former owner, George, was quite helpful with his John Deere tractor, taking some of the weight for the tilt and tow to slide the lathe home.

    img_0177-1024x768-.jpg

    Pete, of Pete's Towing, is very skilled at manipulating heavy objects. He makes it look effortless. I was happy to have found him a few weeks ago, on another lathe move.

    img_0178-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0175-1024x768-.jpg

    On the way home....

    img_0179-768x1024-.jpg

    Back on Terra Firma...

    img_0182-1024x768-.jpg

    More pics coming...

    Brian

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  12. #28
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    Here are the promised pics of the inside of the headstock. It really looks good in there, although, there is a very fine line of spray of black goo on the inside of the headstock cover,maybe 1/16" wide, which tells me that the oil needs changing, for sure.

    img_0185-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0186-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0187-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0184-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0188-1024x768-.jpg

  13. #29
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    When I arrived on site, along with the towing guy "in tow", I planned on backing up to the lathe to "grab" the 16" chuck and place it in the back of my truck, along with anything else that might be loose. I could roll it to get a better purchase, but when I went to lift it out of the chip pan, it felt like I was tugging at the corner of a building....

    Heavy... !!! My back told me that I am not the same strong young guy that I used to be, and I relented... screwed in a forge eye into the lifting hole, and allowed the JD to do the work for me.

    As soon as the towing guy had been paid and left my driveway, I donned a pair of nitrile gloves and went at cleaning up the lathe with kerosene and rags. Once I had all of the ways cleaned up, I doused them with fresh way oil and moved the tail stock and carriage away from the head stock, to do further cleaning.

    This is just a preliminary cleaning, to get most of the dried on crud and chips removed. I will remove the tail stock, and completely dismantle and clean it up, ensuring that the oiling system works properly, before re-installing it back onto the lathe. When they last did the green paint job, they painted right over the oil sight glass...

    I will also do the same for the saddle and apron.

    Here's a few more pics of the clean up in progress..... All surfaces was covered in a 1/8" in black grime....

    img_0194-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0197-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0199-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0200-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0204-1024x768-.jpg
    Last edited by Sachmanram; 10-07-2017 at 07:01 AM.

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  15. #30
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    Hello John

    Do you still have possession of your L&S lathe ? I will attempt to find an original slide rule for the head stock, but I am thinking that I have a much better chance of winning a lottery.....

    In lieu of an original, if anyone out there who has a slide rule, could you furnish some dimensions of the slide, and background plate and stops? I have some excellent photos of an original, and will attempt to re-create one on card stock. At least I will have the pertinent information.

    Brian

  16. #31
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    No.......sold to Ken (4GSR) years ago who recently sold it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sachmanram View Post
    Hello John

    Do you still have possession of your L&S lathe ? I will attempt to find an original slide rule for the head stock, but I am thinking that I have a much better chance of winning a lottery.....

    In lieu of an original, if anyone out there who has a slide rule, could you furnish some dimensions of the slide, and background plate and stops? I have some excellent photos of an original, and will attempt to re-create one on card stock. At least I will have the pertinent information.

    Brian

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    Ok, he has responded to me on another site, and I am now connecting the two. The pictures of the slide rule that he sent to me, looked hand drawn, but he corrected me, that it was factory made. The only other one that I have seen, is on Keith Rucker's L&S lathe, and it looks to be cast brass with raised lettering.

    I am certain that I can come up with something that will work, for the time being, but if anyone has such a slide rule on their L&S lathe, I would appreciate it if you could supply some dimensions for me.

    I decided to take the 16" 3-jaw chuck out of my truck and into the shop to do a cursory cleaning and inspection.

    Here are a few photos of the chuck...

    img_0205-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0206-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0207-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0208-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0210-1024x768-.jpg

    The chuck, other than some staining, appears to be used very little, and scrolls nicely throughout it's range. I'll be on the lookout for a 4-jaw.

    My power went out in mid sentence, so I had to get my generator going. We are having a big wind storm at the moment. Not anything like you guys to the south of me.

    Brian

  18. #33
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    So, this thread was about advice prior to purchasing this lathe. I ended up with really sound advice and I am happy to have bought the lathe. It's still a gamble, as I haven't been able to power it up, but I will deal with whatever comes down the pipe.

    I took the tail stock apart and off of the bed of the lathe this evening, documenting photos and observations. Should I open another thread, as I go along ? I plan on taking the saddle and apron completely apart, as well as the head stock sump and pump, replacing bearings and bushings, or making parts as I go. It won't be a full restoration, as I could not afford it, but this lathe will be in much better working condition, after I work on the various systems.

    Does this vintage of lathe better suit the "Antique" forum, or is it better suited to "Heavy American Iron" ?

    Brian

  19. #34
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    I like one thread forever. I have NO IDEA how the gents with 47 threads on one project keep track of anything

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  21. #35
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    I second John.
    Keep using this thread.
    Thanks!

    Paolo

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  23. #36
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    Well, Ok....

    I am glad to hear that. I just wasn't sure if interest would persist.

    I had a half hour in the shop after work, and decided to take the tail stock apart and off of the lathe, for clean up and inspection. With the oil sight glass painted over, and the oil filler Gitz cap missing, I expected things to be as I found them.

    img_0237-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0238-1024x768-.jpg

    I used a shop crane to take the top half of the tail stock off. Then I used a small amount of paint stripper to reveal a nice and clear oil sight glass...

    img_0239-1024x768-.jpg

    The oil sump was very low, and it looks like only one oiling hole from the sump was clear. There is some slight scoring on the ways of the tail stock, and just an edge of wear that can be felt by a fingernail on the flat ways, where the original scraped surface exists beside the main travel and connection of the way surfaces. I will attempt to measure that tomorrow. But, overall, things look good.

    img_0240-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0241-1024x768-.jpg

    Would there have been felt oil wicks, feeding those two oil passageways from the sump? It seems to me like it would work well, considering that the exit passages are way up at the top of the sump.

    Brian

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    Last evening, I took a closer look at the oiling passages, and found all of them to be blocked with sludge. There are two from the sump, for the front flat and rear v ways, but there is also one at the head stock end for the flat way. This is accessed by a small horizontal hole in the casting, which intersects with a vertical hole to the flat way.

    img_0242-1024x768-.jpg

    This hole is quite small, compared to the hole for the sump. The sump would have had a Gitz oiler, but this front hole doesn't look large enough for one. I suppose that it was simply meant to be oiled directly by oil can. In the parts list drawing for the tail stock, it does show this hole, so I do believe it is original.

    Brian

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    My 1918 Selectice head has dozens of holes for oiling... no oilers or Gits cups, just holes in most cases. Many have copper tubing to route the oil to the desired location. Every single one had a little dirt dobber nest in it. I ran a thin piece of wire through to clear, then used a thin length of stainless cable with one end frayed out a little as a wire brush to run through with a cordless drill to get all the mud and grit out.

    I also found one oiling plug screw on the carriage wing that has been totally packed full of chips and obliterated to the point I had to file the surface and just happened to notice a change in the grain of the metal to see it. Lack of oil had ruined the bearing surfaces in the apron feed gearing, so all that had to be bushed back up and bored out.

    Go through the manual and locate every single oiling point on your machine. L&S definitely improved the oiling procedures on the Xs, but you may still find some obscure oiling port that hasn't been serviced in decades.

  26. #39
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    Hi Mike,

    Point very well written and taken about all of the lubrication holes. On the tail stock alone, there are numerous holes and passages that are out of sight, until you take it completely apart. The rear of the top two holes, routes oil to the bronze nut, spindle screw and the thrust bearing. This one was open and there was plenty of lubrication in there. The one up front was blocked solid with chips, but there was still a nice oily film on the spindle and the bore.

    Here are a few of the parts, waiting to go back together...

    img_0245-1024x768-.jpg

    The spindle screw and the bronze nut, look to be in great shape, but this is one area of the lathe that would see the least use, in regards to rotating parts. Both mating halves of the tail stock show nice hand scraping throughout.

    Another oiling hole and passageway that might get overlooked, is the oiling point for the quick lock cam at the rear of the tail stock. On mine, the dog point set screws were backed off so much, that the cam lock shaft, simply pulled right out and the clamp tightener eye bolt fell into the chip pan. Once I turned the main tail stock casting over, to inspect the bottom, I could see that directly in line with the set screw hole, was another hole in the ceiling of the bore, that looked like it would intersect a hole in the side of the casting.

    img_0247-768x1024-.jpg

    img_0246-1024x768-.jpg

    This hole was also jammed full of fine chips, and took some effort to get it cleared. This oiling point will, of course, provide lubrication to the cam shaft, which also has a series of interconnecting holes and passages, which will help travel the oil to the 3 separate bores.

    img_0248-1024x768-.jpg

    The shaft was bored from the end, then the intersecting holes, then the end of the bore was plugged with a brass rod. All of these passageways were nice and clear.

    Finally, the tail stock base. Only one, out of three oiling passages to the base were clear, the other two jammed full of crud. As well, the wicking felts were non existent in the oil sump. In addition, someone had painted right over the oil sight window, as well as the zero and degree markings for the tail stock set over.

    I added the felt wicks and will have to find a Gitz oiler to cover the main opening.

    img_0249-1024x768-.jpg

    So, in conclusion, I expect to find more of the same, as I go further into the lathe. The head stock looks real nice, from what I could see, but I suspect that the oil sump will have a bunch of black crud in it, as there was a fine line of black spray under the head stock cover.

    The carriage and apron might be the most expensive and time consuming, if the neglect carried on over there. I am not worried at all, as I really love digging into these old machines and fixing them up.

    Before I go too much further, I need to swap out the 10hp 575v 3 phase motor, for a 10hp 220v 3 phase motor, Then, I need to acquire an RPC to run it. I am thinking that a 15hp unit would be large enough, but I am not certain.

    Brian

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  28. #40
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    I had a short day at work, as I had an appointment with my optometrist, just after lunch. My yearly examination, which involves Optomap, as well as dilation of the pupils with a hands on look at the back of the eye by the optometrist. My optometrist, through this type of examination, found a torn retina, and likely saved my eye, after undergoing laser eye surgery. I digress..... the point is, that after a pupil dilation, you can`t drive or work.

    So, in the dim light of my shop, I worked on getting the tail stock back together. This is not a complicated device, by any means, but I was rewarded with everything working silky smooth, and the satisfaction of knowing that oil was getting to all of the moving parts. It is nearly effortless to crank the tail stock along the ways, compared to before.

    I still have some improvements to make, like replacing the handle on the hand wheel, and adding a Gits oil cover for the sump. In addition, when I have the lathe up and running, I will calibrate the tail stock to center, and provide a stamped line for the zero mark, which seems to have been filed away, at some point.

    I also need to clean up the bed of the lathe, and remove the crud that has accumulated on the underside where the tail stock clamps hug the bed. I have the quick cam clamp working just right, taking very little effort to engage.

    Here`s a few pics of things going together...

    img_0266-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0267-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0268-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0271-1024x768-.jpg

    img_0273-1024x768-.jpg

    Nothing real exciting, but I will pick away at it. I have two additional lathes that have to exit the shop. My South Bend 16 is nearly done, and I also have the Prentice Bros. lathe that I haven`t even touched yet.

    I`ll post this and a dd another photo or two...

    Brian


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