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16" Springfield Lathe

Adavis4908

Plastic
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Hello all, I just got my first lathe, a 16" Springfield. I'm having a hard time finding information on it and I'm not sure what parts are missing. I plan on doing a mechanical restoration of it, any information could help!

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Hello all, I just got my first lathe, a 16" Springfield. I'm having a hard time finding information on it and I'm not sure what parts are missing. I plan on doing a mechanical restoration of it, any information could help!

-Unfortunately, Springfields were never as popular as other models, like Monarch, Leblond or American. There is, in fact, very little information to be had about them, online or otherwise. The best source, such as it is, is Tony's Lathes.co.uk article, and even that's sadly lacking in real technical data. It tends to 'straddle' the wartime years- his pictures show either '20s-'30s machines, or the later late-sixties/early-seventies stuff.

I have a scanned copy that another PM'er sent me, of a sort of 'catalog' from Springfield, but that's also of some slightly later models- similar, but not quite exactly the same.

I have a fair writeup of rebuilding my 16"x56" here on PM, in which I show detailed shots of internal workings, various repairs and replacement parts.

Now, just from a quick glance at your photos, I don't see anything major wrong, with the possible exception of the apron mounted feed reversing lever- you might do a little investigating to see why that bungee cord is there. (It may be holding the half-nut lever fully disengaged, but if that's the case, no idea why.)

Now, other details: Mine's 43021, so yours is 89 newer than it. :D

Your machine also at one time had the rare relieving attachment- check that first big photo in Tony's link, and you'll see where a fixture bolted to the top of the QCGB (yours had the holes) was driven off the left end of the spindle (yours has a shopmade cover over the opening) and hooked to the side of the compound (that round boss on the left side of the compound.)

That was for turning cutters- the geartrain would move the tool in and out in time to the spindle rotation, forming the "lobes" on a wheel-type cutter blank that would eventually become the cutting teeth. Shame the mechanism itself is gone, but that's kind of obsolete tech anyway.

Neither the carriage stop nor the threading dial are original to the machine- no idea the make or model, but they're not factory Springfield parts. Not sure what the story is with that chunk of rectangular tubing- maybe somebody's homebrew chuck key rack?

It doesn't look to me like you really need to do a major teardown like I did. If I were you, I'd inspect things carefully for wear, damage or contamination, clean the sliding and rotating parts thoroughly, and lube the bejeebers out of everything. Buy more bejeebers if you have to. :D

The apron has a built-in oil pump. The reservoir is filled from that round cap low on the left side. Inspect it for grit and swarf first. You can pull that knob just to the right of the carriage handwheel, and "freewheel" the handwheel a couple of times- that "primes" the pump and gets some lube to where it's supposed to go, before you start working.

There's several flow controllers in the internal "manifold" that are very likely clogged. Those should be attended post-haste. Machines of this vintage live in oil, and can't be over-oiled. Well, technically if your shoes start to go "squish", you're over-oiling. :)

Ditto the tailstock, which should have it's own oil reservoir, and especially the left-side geartrain and QC gearbox. Clean, lube, and keep lubed. The open gears inside the side cover are probably best served by an open-gear lube.

And chances are if you run across something broken or damaged, you're going to have to make a replacement. I've been playing with mine since '13, and I have never seen anyone part one out.

Let me know if you have any other questions. :D

Doc.
 
Nice video, can't wait to see it running. :D

On the motor, that looks like the original, or at least very close to a photo I saw that supposedly had an original motor. :D It's probably 10 HP, but as you note in the video, you'll likely have to see the data plate to confirm it.

I can say, however, that a good 10HP VFD will cost you a fortune. I picked one up- the only non-eBay, non-Chinese-knockoff 10HP, single-phase-in VFD I could find, and that ran me a good $1,200 plus shipping.

I'm told the eBay "10 hp" VFDs work, but the jury is still WAY out how long they'll last or how much actual current draw they can support. (Most of the people that buy them are using big lathes for small jobs, and never really put a full draw on the motor.)

If you go with a VFD, you'll have to rewire all those buttons up there- that was clearly wired for native 3-phase, and you don't want to switch VFD power like that. It's fairly straightforward to use those buttons to control the VFD, but takes a little care and time.

One thing: the lathe does not have a built in reverse gear. In order to run the thing in reverse (if you ever needed to) you have to reverse the motor- which is easy and common, your controls very likely have that already wired in. The problem is, that oil pump does not run in reverse. The internal gears will not get the proper lube while running backward.

Not a big deal for a short run, as they're rollers and will have oil for a short while, but don't run it in reverse for very long.

You can check oil flow in that little window below and to the left of the big cylindrical lever boss on the headstock. When the spindle is running, you should see oil running down that window. Keep an eye on it- the oil flow quits, stop the machine and find out why. Same reason you don't want to run an engine with no oil.

Tht flippy cover on the left end that you say you're not sure about, is the "relieving attachement" location that I spoke of before- In this photo on Tony's site, while it shows a slightly older model machine, you can see how the relieving attachment fits to both the headstock and compound.

Oh, and that side cover you hope to take off? That just slides off. No bolts, etc. It's just hung on the two bolts- grab those two knobs and just lift. Don't drop it. :)

The broken lever is the leadscrew reverse- which I suspect was actually sawed off rather than broken. An LSR is used for threading, among other things, you just close the half nuts wherever, and use the leadscrew reverse to simply wind the carriage back to start. Clearly, if somebody retrofitted a standard threading dial to the machine, they likely didn't use the LSR, and may have sawed the ball end off just to keep it from getting in the way.

Personally, I plan to have both: I was classically trained with a threading dial, and that's what I'm most comfortable with. I picked up a large dial of unknown make from another PM'er a few months back, and plan to install it, but I also plan to keep the LSR fully functional.

Th "21" you note is basically a "lot number"- certain parts have to be fitted to each other at the factory, and so things get stamped like that to keep them together through the assembly process, even when you have to separate them for machining. Mine has "19" in similar places, and I have an old leather-belt drill press with "23" on most of the bigger parts.

Let's see, what else? Don't shift the gears with the spindle turning. Oh, and that broken boss is in fact important- that's part of the clutch linkage that starts and stops the spindle. If that fails at the wrong time, you could wind up with a nasty crash. Mine had been broken, been rewelded, and then broken again- the cast iron is too thin, in my opinion, and I plan to make a new one out of welded steel.

Let us know when you have another video, or more pics. :D I've been thinking of putting some pics and links up on my site, since I've kind of become the de-facto Springfield guru... :)

Doc.
 
You're a life saver! Thank you, I think a rotary phase converter might be the way to go... I've also noticed spare parts are non existant, it was hard enough finding a Springfield lathe that was for sale in the first place
 
For something in the 7.5 to 10HP range, yeah, a rotary might be the best balance. Better than a static converter, but less expensive than a VFD.

On spare parts, really, unless you buy one of an actually fairly narrow range of fairly popular machines, replacement parts are rarely widely available. Get away from things like Monarchs and Leblonds, and parts are few and far between.

On the plus side, beyond things like castings, much can be made or adapted- and it looks like yours doesn't need much by way of parts anyway. The spindle nose is L1, and there's a hundred chucks on eBay that'll fit that, and your toolpost appears to be a BXA- you can get fistfuls of import tool blocks to fit that. (Double check the size before you buy. I'm kind of guessing, there. :D )

Were you looking for a Springfield, specifically, or was that just what happened to be in the right place at the right time?

Doc.
 
Is this the same Springfield as the vertical grinder company?

-I seem to recall something like that. Something like the old lathe company, which by the 70s was a faint shadow of it's former self, branched out into making grinders.

Not certain on that, though. Might, in truth, have little connection apart from the font used in the name.

Doc.
 
Thank you guys for helping me out so much finding information on this thing. I had a couple brands of lathes in mind when I was searching...Springfield was one of them and this lathe came up for sale and was in the same state as me (Ohio).

Getting a look at the tag on the motor proved to be difficult, I took an inspection mirror, took a picture of it, and by the magic of editing was able to "mirror" it so that it was no longer backwards and could be read. 220 3 phase 60 Hz, but what is strange to me is that it lists two HP ratings, 5/2.5 . and it also seems that the AMP rating was restamped overtop of an original rating. The guy I bought it off of had it running off of a 30hp 220 rotary phase converter so it could run it regardless if it was 5 or 2.5

Here are some pictures so you can believe I'm not going crazy

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Toms got it, two speed with the corresponding amperage. The switch gear likely is set up for it giving the machine more useful spindle speed range. I wouldn’t be concerned about the motor mass, that thing was built when all the parts were cast.
 
That's interesting, nothing I've ever read about the Springfields indicated a two-speed motor. And your spindle speed chart doesn't note anything about a "high range/low range" setting- which it'd almost have to if that motor was factory.

So looks like that was a later refit. And, it's worth noting, unnecessary- the machine already has a factory lowest spindle speed of 11 RPM, which is a snail's pace you'd only use on a chunk of heavy steel if you're trying to peel off a 1/2" at a pass. 5.5 RPM would be absurd. :D

The 1140 RPM is, as I understand it, period correct. Mine has a (much later retrofit) 10HP 1750 RPM motor, and all the speeds, as measured with a laser tachometer, are right at 50% higher than the factory chart shows.

Gotta remember that a machine of this size was meant for heavy steel or iron-casting workpieces, using carbon steel or that exotic new "high speed" steel for cutters. It's not really going to be at home making tiny pins at high RPM. :D

If it were me, I'd wire it to use just the 5HP/1140RPM winding- if you go with a VFD, you'll basically have to choose one winding or the other, or come up with a way to mechanically switch them, and then only switch when the motor is off. (That's what I did with an Arboga drill press, with a 2-speed motor. I just have to make sure the motor is off before switching between high and low.)

If you go with a rotary converter, you can leave the controls as they are, which may include the high and low range.

And I wouldn't recommend a static converter- you'll lose roughly a third of your HP, and 5 might already be a tad weak. And 2.5 is definitely a bit underpowered, for anything but small parts and light cuts.

If anyone reading this knows, I'd be curious to know who Springfield originally got their motors from, at least back in this wartime era. I recall seeing a photo of one with a GE motor, but again, no way to positively confirm it was original.

Doc.
 
1140/575 means it would be a 6 /12 pole motor right? Sheesh, that's a bunch.

@Doc, I'd suspect wartime motors came from whomever had stock at the time. But maybe not.
 
I should've have guessed the dual horsepower rating with the two speeds, I'll call American Rotary to see what they would recommend, I'm hoping their AR10 could work because it's very reasonably priced for a 10hp phase converter, I'm trying to avoid building one if I can
 
@Doc, I'd suspect wartime motors came from whomever had stock at the time. But maybe not.

-I suspect you're right, and the mounting plate in the Springfield (at least in my Springer) is really just a plate, so could accept virtually any motor you wanted to put in there. (There's room for a motor bigger around than a 5-gallon bucket in there. :D )

Although I also suspect that electric motor production was so firmly war-critical that there wee few or no shortages or substitutions. (Which I also acknowledge is just seat-of-my-pants presumption. :D )

But nonetheless, it'd be an interesting bit of trivia to know, even if only just for my own curiosity. As I've said, I've been toying with the idea of putting up my own Springfield-information page- Tony's is nice for general info, but there's people like the OP that will want to know more technical details.

Doc.
 
If anyone is curious about converter sizing, American Rotary recommended a 15 hp phase converter, they said that the dual-sized units are sized differently, the starting load would be similar to a 7.5 hp motor. Since I need one so big I'll probably build one so it doesn't cost me a small fortune, I've come across a couple shops that make pre-made boxes with capacitors set up for a 15 hp motor
 








 
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