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1880s steam powered Otis main sheave

cyanidekid

Titanium
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Location
Brooklyn NYC
Just came across these pics in an old txt thread, these were in a building on Greenwich St And Desbrosses in NW tribeca (NYC). When they were clearing out some basement space 6 years ago, I managed to at least redirect this iron from the scrapper to someone who would “ repurpose” it with decorative-artistic intent. (The engine was long gone by then).

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This was for an elevator in a 6 story wharehouse, a large modern facility at the time.
 

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If you look carefully at old photographs of NYC, particularly if taken from a higher vantage point such as the Brooklyn Bridge or some of the taller buildings over in Brooklyn, you will see many buildings have small plumes of steam coming off their rooftops. These were most often from the steam elevator engines. ANother clue is if a non-industrial building (such as an office bldg) has a small "inverted cone" shaped "exhaust head". These were devices to separate condensate and cylinder oil from steam exhausted to atmosphere, as well as to muffle the sound of a steam engine or steam pump exhaust. As Con Edison began steam distribution to buildings in Manhattan, many got rid of their boiler plants. They tied their existing steam equipment such as fire pumps, elevator engines, and even some steam engines into Con Ed supplied steam.

The result was buildings with no working chimney or smokestack still had exhaust steam coming off them. One particularly interesting case was the old Gouverneur Hospital in lower Manhattan. This hospital had stationary steam engines producing DC power. It ran those engines and was partially on DC power into the 1970's. What occurred was the boiler plant reached the point of being beyond any kind of reasonable repair. Since the hospital itself was quite old and slated for demolition and replacement, the engines were tied into Con Ed steam for the last few years. I'd drive by on the East River Drive and see the pulsing plume of steam coming off the old hospital, but never stopped in to ask to see the engines.

Conrad Milster related a crazy story some years back about one of the last steam elevator engines running in NYC. Seems a new NYC Buildings Inspector (known as a "Code Enforcement Officer" in environs outside NY City), o rpossibly a Fire Department inspector, was doing a routine inspection of this old building. SInce the building had a basement with the elevator machinery in it, the inspector took a look at it. He started to write a violation of building or fire code, citing some portion of the code which called for elevator machinery to be in a fireproof room isolated from the rest of the surrounding space. The building owner or maintenance man told the inspector the elevator was steam powered, non electric, and pre-dated the codes. An argument ensued, with the building's people contending that since the elevator was non-electric and had no switchgear with "contactors", there was no need to enclose the machinery. This crazy argument went up and back for some little time, and no one at the regulating agencies had a clue as to the fact there were once steam powered elevators that did not run on electricity. Finally, to shut up the inspectors and make the violations go away, the building management agreed to build a "fire rated assembly" (walls with a fire rating) around the steam hoisting engine with self-closing door, fusible link... the works. Of course, a few years later, this engine and elevator were taken out of service.

Some of the old buildings had hydraulic freight elevators which came up from the basement thru the sidewalk. These elevators had a platform which had a steel arch over it. As the elevator ascended up from the basement, the arch pushed the "leaves" of the steel basement entry doors up. A warning bell would sound as soon as the elevator was set in motion, and a sign warned pedestrians. These elevators would ascend slowly, and the doors (usually heavy diamond tread steel deck plate) would begin to open. The elevator was worked in the old days by a small steam pump and dead-weight hydraulic accumulator. The dead weight accumulator was what did the real work when the heavier flow of water to the lift ram was needed. The steam pump worked automatically with a pressure regulator to open and close the steam supply valve.

The Otis Elevator steam hoisting engine was quite interesting in its own right.
It was quite close, if not the same, in operating principal as a "steam steering engine" used on ships. In this application, when the ship's wheel is turned to steer the ship, a pointer in the wheelhouse would move to the desired rudder position. This worked a shaft and gearing down to the steering engine, which moved a stop and unbalanced a valve as well as setting the direction for the steering engine to run. The steering engine then played "catch up", moving the rudder until the mechanism "balanced" or centered the valve and stopped the engine. A second pointer linked to the rudder itself would move until it was coincident with the first pointer. The rudder would remain in that position until another change to the rudder angle was needed. The elevator worked similarly, with the persons in the elevator car (usually an assigned operator) working the controls on the steam hoisting engine via a rope that ran thru the car.

I've seen steam steering engines in actual operation on the Great Lakes years ago, and always was intrigued by their mechanisms. It struck me that the Otis Elevator steam hoisting engines were quite similar. Another old feature of cable elevators was the governor. This lived on until recent time when enclosed "speed switches" replaced it. Typically, a large open flyball type governor, large enough for a good sized Corliss steam engine, woul reside in the elevator penthouse (shaft head) or down in the basement machinery room. It was connected to the shaft the hoisting sheaves ran on. If the elevator "ran away" due to a lack of control or mechanical failure, this governor would bring in a spring actuated brake to stop and hold the elevator. Some of these old elevator governors have been turning up in antique/art type places.
 
Elevator Dials

Joe,

Today, the hallway outside the elevator has either a row of lights or a digital display to indicate the location of the car. But, it wasn't always like this.

I vaguely recall that in my distant youth, there were some older elevators which had a dial in the hall near the elevator door on each floor. The dial had bronze numbers with a rotating pointer to show what floor the elevator was currently on, and which way it was moving.

Your post got me to thinking about how this worked. Was it a mechanical linkage ?

John Ruth
 
I remember well both the sidewalk elevator with the arch that would push open the hatch, with the bell ringing away, quite common all over Soho, and in the midtown hotels until the '80s perhaps? I vaguely recall the St. Regis had such a unit?

of corse the "bronze" pointer to indicate the floor position of the elevators were common in many buildings. In fact, I was just in Grand Central Station two weeks ago, and there is a passenger elevator to the lower platform that still has them, and they work!
 
cyanidekid,
Thanks for sharing your pictures .
If you use the forum search engine for “ Otis” you will see they are mentioned in a few threads .
Here are some links,
Otis Elevator Company : the Otis elevator industry comprises large manufacturing plants throughout the United States, Canada, Europe and Australia.
Internet Archive Search: creator:"Otis Elevator Company"
They were posted in post 19 of this thread from a few years ago .
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ng-railway-1892-1918-a-207718/?highlight=Otis
P.S.
87 years of vertical transportation with Otis elevators.

Regards,
Jim
 
The Otis Elevator steam hoisting engine was quite interesting in its own right.
It was quite close, if not the same, in operating principal as a "steam steering engine" used on ships. In this application, when the ship's wheel is turned to steer the ship, a pointer in the wheelhouse would move to the desired rudder position. This worked a shaft and gearing down to the steering engine, which moved a stop and unbalanced a valve as well as setting the direction for the steering engine to run. The steering engine then played "catch up", moving the rudder until the mechanism "balanced" or centered the valve and stopped the engine.
I don't know why I should be surprised to learn about a steam-operated servo mechanism, but this was indeed something new for me.
 
John Ruth:

I suspect the "pointer" type of elevator floor indicator had to have been mechanically worked in the old days. Prior to such inventions as "Selsyn" motors or similar electro-mechanical means of transmitting motion, particularly in steam elevator days, a mechanical means of working the pointer type of floor indicator was the only show in town. If you look at pictures of old mine hoists (or "winding engines" or "winders"), you will see a position indicator for the "cages" in the mine shaft. This is geared off the hoist drum shaft.

With the old elevator floor indicators, I would not be surprised if a small-diameter piece of wire rope was used to work the floor indicators. This piece of wire rope probably working thru a rack and pinion to move the pointer on the wall over the elevator entrances at each floor.

SFriedberg: Over my career, I have found myself realizing how certain types of mechanisms or designs tend to repeat themselves in various forms for seemingly random or divers applications. Another application of the servo mechanism is on governors for hydro (water) turbines. Early hydro turbine governors used mechanical servo mechanisms to regulate the flow of water into a turbine. Some used clutches, and all used some sort of "travelling stop" that required the mechanism to play "catch up" (as I call it). In a funny story: years ago, I was assigned to a dredging job for pipe-type power transmission cables to be laid on the bed of the Hudson River. We had a dredge "spoil" disposal site located about 25 miles North up the Hudson River in an old brick works clay pit. Dredge spoil was moved upriver by coal scows with tugboats to move them. One tug skipper was a real character, named "Tiny". Tiny owned his tug, an ex US Army WWII ship docking type tug, about 95 feet long. I was "deadheading" downriver from the disposal site to the dredging site in the wheelhouse of Tiny's tug, known as the "Billy D". It was a balmy summer afternoon. Tiny had the wheelhouse doors hooked open and was wheeling his tug with a cigarette hanging out of his face. Off Kingston, NY, Tiny asked me: "Would you like a fried liverwurst sandwich ? Hows about some coffee ?". I said I'd take a cup of black coffee, never mind the sandwich. I expected Tiny to holler down the speaking tube to the galley. Instead, he stepped out of the wheelhouse, saying: "Take 'er, chief.." With that, Tiny went out of the wheelhouse and down to the galley. I heard some slamming of the watertight doors on the house below. I knew enough to follow the channel, but the tug started veering off. Reasoning that the tug had an ex-LST EMD 12-567 engine in her, she probably had hydraulic steering gear. I cranked in some rudder to bring the tug back into the channel. Nothing happened, so I cranked in more rudder. I was wondering why the rudder was not answering. By this point, I had the rudder almost hard over. About then, I heard a sound of chains clanking like crazy. My immediate thought was "oh s--t... this tug's got a steering engine and it was slow in answering..." With that, I got damned near 90 degrees worth of rudder and the tug started heeling over into a hard turn. Naturally, I cranked in opposite rudder, and the tug heeled into that. I had the tug making "lazy S turns", admittedly a bit smaller with each correction. This explained the slamming of the watertight doors down on the main deck. I had that tug heeling like a motorcycle taking a curve. About the time I got the helm figured out, I heard on the radio: "Billy D.... Billy D...." I hollered into the mike: "This is Billy D... where away ?" The radio crackled: "Billy D... Look abaft of you, Cap..." I poked my head out of the wheel house and looked back to see a large tanker bearing down on us. I am no deck sailor and know next to nothing about the "rules of the road", but knew enough to holler: "Which side do you want me to lay over to..." About then, Captain Tiny arrived in the wheelhouse with my coffee, and grabbed the mike: "One whistle side or two ?" The pilot on the tanker told Tiny which side to lay over to, and he took the wheel with two fingers, managing his perpetual cigarette and his coffee. Tiny was laughing, and told me he'd set me up. His crew were down in the galley and engine room laughing as well. I told Tiny I'd been expecting the rudder to answer (follow what the helm wanted) a whole lot quicker, and had not been expecting a "steering engine", having only seen them on steam vessels up on the Lakes. Tiny was funny, telling me the tug was built during WWII, and had the original electro mechanical steering engine. Cap'n Tiny knew how steam steering engine worked, and told me that aside from a DC motor, the steering on his tug was otherwise the same and the rudder was "slow to answer". Needless to say, I had a few choice words for Captain Tiny's idea of a joke. He gave me an old copy of "Bowditch"- a classic reference book for deck sailors and deck officers, and told me to study it. He also told me to give fried liverwurst sandwiches a try. That was 1986, Tiny is dead a good few years, his tug, the "Billy D" was sank to become part of a fish reef, and I as much as I love liverwurst, I've never tried it fried. The steering engine was a classic early servomechanism. On ocean going tugs, early on, another version of this same principal (in the same line as the steam elevator engine) was the "constant tension towing winch". This steam winch paid out or took up towing hawsers on ocean tows, since the seas might tend to slacken or stretch and part the towing hawsers.

In the days before electro mechanical systems, the servomechanisms were totally mechanical. It took some ingenious mechanisms to do what is done a lot more easily with electromechanical systems. It now takes only a chip with imbedded logic and some transducers to do what a complicated mechanical servomechanism was needed for.

As I said, I continually see adaptations of the same principals re-applied in ships, hydro turbines, or elevators.
 
Last steam driven and last hydraulic elevators in use

If you look carefully at old photographs of NYC, particularly if taken from a higher vantage point such as the Brooklyn Bridge or some of the taller buildings over in Brooklyn, you will see many buildings have small plumes of steam coming off their rooftops. These were most often from the steam elevator engines. ANother clue is if a non-industrial building (such as an office bldg) has a small "inverted cone" shaped "exhaust head". These were devices to separate condensate and cylinder oil from steam exhausted to atmosphere, as well as to muffle the sound of a steam engine or steam pump exhaust. As Con Edison began steam distribution to buildings in Manhattan, many got rid of their boiler plants. They tied their existing steam equipment such as fire pumps, elevator engines, and even some steam engines into Con Ed supplied steam.

The result was buildings with no working chimney or smokestack still had exhaust steam coming off them. One particularly interesting case was the old Gouverneur Hospital in lower Manhattan. This hospital had stationary steam engines producing DC power. It ran those engines and was partially on DC power into the 1970's. What occurred was the boiler plant reached the point of being beyond any kind of reasonable repair. Since the hospital itself was quite old and slated for demolition and replacement, the engines were tied into Con Ed steam for the last few years. I'd drive by on the East River Drive and see the pulsing plume of steam coming off the old hospital, but never stopped in to ask to see the engines.

Conrad Milster related a crazy story some years back about one of the last steam elevator engines running in NYC. Seems a new NYC Buildings Inspector (known as a "Code Enforcement Officer" in environs outside NY City), o rpossibly a Fire Department inspector, was doing a routine inspection of this old building. SInce the building had a basement with the elevator machinery in it, the inspector took a look at it. He started to write a violation of building or fire code, citing some portion of the code which called for elevator machinery to be in a fireproof room isolated from the rest of the surrounding space. The building owner or maintenance man told the inspector the elevator was steam powered, non electric, and pre-dated the codes. An argument ensued, with the building's people contending that since the elevator was non-electric and had no switchgear with "contactors", there was no need to enclose the machinery. This crazy argument went up and back for some little time, and no one at the regulating agencies had a clue as to the fact there were once steam powered elevators that did not run on electricity. Finally, to shut up the inspectors and make the violations go away, the building management agreed to build a "fire rated assembly" (walls with a fire rating) around the steam hoisting engine with self-closing door, fusible link... the works. Of course, a few years later, this engine and elevator were taken out of service.

Some of the old buildings had hydraulic freight elevators which came up from the basement thru the sidewalk. These elevators had a platform which had a steel arch over it. As the elevator ascended up from the basement, the arch pushed the "leaves" of the steel basement entry doors up. A warning bell would sound as soon as the elevator was set in motion, and a sign warned pedestrians. These elevators would ascend slowly, and the doors (usually heavy diamond tread steel deck plate) would begin to open. The elevator was worked in the old days by a small steam pump and dead-weight hydraulic accumulator. The dead weight accumulator was what did the real work when the heavier flow of water to the lift ram was needed. The steam pump worked automatically with a pressure regulator to open and close the steam supply valve.

The Otis Elevator steam hoisting engine was quite interesting in its own right.
It was quite close, if not the same, in operating principal as a "steam steering engine" used on ships. In this application, when the ship's wheel is turned to steer the ship, a pointer in the wheelhouse would move to the desired rudder position. This worked a shaft and gearing down to the steering engine, which moved a stop and unbalanced a valve as well as setting the direction for the steering engine to run. The steering engine then played "catch up", moving the rudder until the mechanism "balanced" or centered the valve and stopped the engine. A second pointer linked to the rudder itself would move until it was coincident with the first pointer. The rudder would remain in that position until another change to the rudder angle was needed. The elevator worked similarly, with the persons in the elevator car (usually an assigned operator) working the controls on the steam hoisting engine via a rope that ran thru the car.

I've seen steam steering engines in actual operation on the Great Lakes years ago, and always was intrigued by their mechanisms. It struck me that the Otis Elevator steam hoisting engines were quite similar. Another old feature of cable elevators was the governor. This lived on until recent time when enclosed "speed switches" replaced it. Typically, a large open flyball type governor, large enough for a good sized Corliss steam engine, woul reside in the elevator penthouse (shaft head) or down in the basement machinery room. It was connected to the shaft the hoisting sheaves ran on. If the elevator "ran away" due to a lack of control or mechanical failure, this governor would bring in a spring actuated brake to stop and hold the elevator. Some of these old elevator governors have been turning up in antique/art type places.

Would someone please tell me WHEN these elevators went out of service?
 
It is impossible to say when steam driven elevators went out of service. This was a gradual process that happened over several decades. Older buildings in NYC with steam driven elevators had often connected to steam supplies from steam mains in the street by the Consolidated Edison Company of NY. This eliminated having to run a boiler plant. Older buildings such as warehouses or 'loft buildings' with manufacturing firms located in them had no real reason to convert to electrically driven elevator machinery. These locations were not like an office building, hotel, apartment building or a hospital. In these types of buildings, the elevators would be used to transport passengers and see frequent service through the days (and into the nights). A warehouse or loft building required a freight elevator and did not see such frequent service. Older warehouse and loft buildings were relatively 'low rise' construction (maybe 6-8 stories at most), so a low moving steam driven freight elevator could remain in use for many years.

I suspect the demise of the steam elevators came as parts on them wore out. It also came with the realization that the maintenance costs (keeping a steam driven elevator 'machine' properly lubricated, looking after steam traps and drains, to name the most obvious) could be greatly reduced by going to electrically driven elevator machinery.

Pictures of the NYC skyline, particularly those of lower Manhattan, taken in the 20's and 30's show numerous 'feathers' of steam drifting off the tops of various buildings. This was the clue these buildings likely had steam driven elevator machinery. Like any steam engine, the cylinders on a steam driven elevator had to be kept warm and free of condensate. I suspect that there was always some small amount of steam 'bled through' the elevator hoisting engines to keep them warmed and ready to go without too much danger of a slug of condensate wreaking havoc. A steam driven elevator in a loft building or warehouse might well sit idle for hours between 'calls' to move to different floors. When a 'call' did come in, the elevator engine had to be ready to go with no chance to work out condensate as is done on stationary, marine, and locomotive engines. Bleeding steam through an elevator engine on a continuing basis cost money. Con Ed did not give their steam away, and used some form of venturi meters to determine customers' steam usages. Or, it was a matter of burning fuel to make the steam in-house.

The other factor spelling the demise of steam driven elevators was the progression from 'low' or 'mid rise' buildings to 'high rise', which happened well before WWII.
The need for high speed elevators with quick responding hoisting machinery capable of handling elevator cars in high rise buildings would have been a hard thing to accomplish with steam elevators. The old steam elevators relied on a cable or rope that ran either through the car floor and ceiling, or alongside the car (worked by handwheel) to operate the hoisting engine. This was OK for maybe a 10 story building, but would likely have not worked in a high rise building. The "Woolworth" (the founder of the "5 and 10 cent store") building in NYC was one of the first 'skyscrapers', and ushered in a new generation of buildings. It likely had direct-current driven elevator machinery.

I well remember the old early-generation electrically driven elevators. These were often Otis "Micro Drive" elevators with a flat disc controller having a wooden crank handle mounting on the side-wall of the elevator cars close to the doors. The elevator operators usually had a folding stool type of seat for idle times between runs, and often, a small wall mounted electric fan. In department stores and office buildings and hotels, uniformed elevator operators were employed to run these types of elevators. The elevator operators were quite adept at racing their elevator cars to the required 'stop' or floor requested by passengers (or called for by buttons at each floor/shaft door). As they neared the floor required, they'd work the controller handle to bring the elevator cab to a smooth and jar-free stop. With a swift hand motion, they'd open the scissors gate (usually polished brass in the fancier department stores or hotels) and the sliding shaft doors would also come open.

The elevator operators are an extinct breed. In their day, they provided a running commentary, gave information as to what floor a person needed to get off at, and were often called upon to act in various other capacities such as giving encouragement or consoling people in hospitals, congratulating honeymooners in hotels, and commiserating with passengers who were having a rough day at the office. In large buildings, there was often an 'elevator captain' or 'elevator starter'. This was a person who stood at the elevator banks on the main floor of a building and directed passengers to the proper elevators. Some buildings ran multiple elevators, some of which were 'express' elevators, not stopping at some of the lower floors. Or, it was simply a matter of getting the elevators filled and transporting passengers as expeditiously as possible during rush hours.

My late father once gave me a piece of advice: if I were coming into a new and large building, whether it be an office building, hotel, or hospital, and needed information, Dad said to ask the elevator captain. It was great advice, as those captains, if you were polite and respectful, would give you the low-down about the firm you were going to visit and even some of the 'wheels' you might run into. Nowadays, elevator banks are automated, and human elevator operators and elevator captains are likely extinct.

I am also reminded of a tour I had at the L.S. Starrett Company's Athol, Massachusetts plant in 1985. It was a one-on-one tour given by a toolmaker apprentice, and as we worked our way through the Starrett plant, it included a ride in a line-shaft driven freight elevator. The machinery was likely similar to what the Cyanide Kid posted photos of. As I recall, the lineshaft was in constant motion, and when we got into the freight elevator, to get it to move required a mechanism which shifted the belt. The ride was all of one story, mainly to show me the old elevator in action. I think the elevator was there to transport loads over a distance of maybe a basement, ground floor, and second floor.

BTW: in deference to the OP's 'handle': in 1985, during the tour of the Starrett plant, we swung by the heat treating department. One of the prominent features was a sign and warning about the cyanide 'pot'. This was located under a large smoke/exhauster hood, but no other barriers or safety equipment were apparent to me. I remember the toolmaker apprentice who was giving me the tour and I kidded about the cyanide pot being right out in the open. I am sure that both the line shaft driven elevator and the use of potassium cyanide for heat treating are long gone from the Starrett plant.
 
[Some of the old buildings had hydraulic freight elevators which came up from the basement thru the sidewalk. These elevators had a platform which had a steel arch over it. As the elevator ascended up from the basement, the arch pushed the "leaves" of the steel basement entry doors up. A warning bell would sound as soon as the elevator was set in motion, and a sign warned pedestrians. These elevators would ascend slowly, and the doors (usually heavy diamond tread steel deck plate) would begin to open ]
at the range that i go to there are two elevator techs one of them was telling me about these type of units and how they were hydraulic and were a total loss system that work off of city water and the sidewalks had skylights built in to them next to the lifts with aprox 3" x 3" squares about 2' x 3' one of the tech was saying he had worked on some in home people lifts that worked the same way in some vary old san diego homes and at one time down town san diego had steam coming up from some of its manhole covers but thats long gone
 
On visits to London in the late 1970's, I was made aware of water motors for driving machinery and water-powered elevators and dock cranes. I started to pay attention to the words on the iron manhole covers in the streets. The idea of piped water under pressure, not for drinking, but for driving machines was completely new to me because I was not a big city dweller. The story of that London power company is here:

London Hydraulic Power Company - Wikipedia

Re-using the old water pipes to route electronic communication cables is a great idea.

Larry
 
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