1905 Bullard VBM Clutch Question
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  1. #1
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    Default 1905 Bullard VBM Clutch Question

    I've recently purchased a 1905 rapid production Bullard VBM with a 37.5" diameter table. The previous owners added an electric motor with v-belts to directly drive the machine. So, when the start button is pushed the table begins to turn immediately. That's completely unacceptable to me. I've researched pictures of Bullard vtl's with clutches. My question, does anybody know what clutch manufacturer Bullard used of this time period?

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    At work nearly all the VTLs have been set up on VFDs.

    Be simpler than trying to find/make/adapt a clutch to a 114 year old machine

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by alskdjfhg View Post
    At work nearly all the VTLs have been set up on VFDs.

    Be simpler than trying to find/make/adapt a clutch to a 114 year old machine

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    YUP.

    FWIW the newer (much newer) Dynatrol bullards were "push to start".
    They engaged a clutch with hydraulic pressure, so I'll bet they had speed limit
    valves on the solenoid.

    Just use a VFD as mentioned above.

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    I had a similar Bullard, the clutch arm was low near the floor, I used my foot, I assumed that was how it was intended to be used. It had run in oil disk clutches, as per Bullard the SN checked and it was made in 1910. Flat belt was removed, Vee belt pulley added and motor mounted in the rear, machine worked great! I can check to see if I have any old manuals. I did get one from Bullard at the time, wasn't much only a few copied pages for $100!! However when Bullard was still in business they told me all parts were available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    YUP.

    FWIW the newer (much newer) Dynatrol bullards were "push to start".
    They engaged a clutch with hydraulic pressure, so I'll bet they had speed limit
    valves on the solenoid.

    Just use a VFD as mentioned above.
    The ones that dont have VFDs are push to start. And a jog button is just be a momentary contact to the motor starter. So jog is normal turning speed, just shuts the motor off when you dont press the button.

    Not sure why the push button start would be a problem.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by alskdjfhg View Post
    The ones that dont have VFDs are push to start. And a jog button is just be a momentary contact to the motor starter. So jog is normal turning speed, just shuts the motor off when you dont press the button.

    Not sure why the push button start would be a problem.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I'm pretty sure when I used to run the 54" one, the motor was started
    at some buttons on the side, and ran all day.

    The pendant had a dial for table speeds, with detents.
    A start stop button shifted a hydraulic solenoid in back in "the drawer".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    I had a similar Bullard, the clutch arm was low near the floor, I used my foot, I assumed that was how it was intended to be used. It had run in oil disk clutches, as per Bullard the SN checked and it was made in 1910. Flat belt was removed, Vee belt pulley added and motor mounted in the rear, machine worked great! I can check to see if I have any old manuals. I did get one from Bullard at the time, wasn't much only a few copied pages for $100!! However when Bullard was still in business they told me all parts were available.
    If I could purchase an old manual from you that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alskdjfhg View Post
    The ones that dont have VFDs are push to start. And a jog button is just be a momentary contact to the motor starter. So jog is normal turning speed, just shuts the motor off when you dont press the button.

    Not sure why the push button start would be a problem.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I guess I'm more comfortable with a clutch where you can ease into it.

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    I have to tell yo I would love to see some pics, I have a 1910 Bullard VBM New Era. 54" table . It kinda sounds like yours where a pully for V belts were added and by someone in the past. I looked some years ago and was told by an old timer that back in them days there were no manuals. I don't know if there is any truth to I but he said back in them days sometimes they would send out a rep to show how it works. That may have been cheaper than printing up all kinds of manuals. Like I said I don't know this to be true, just what I was told. I will get some pics of mine and post them . I also did a google search and found Patent drawings that showed the drive system pretty well. mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Custommachining View Post
    I guess I'm more comfortable with a clutch where you can ease into it.
    I am too, but you get used to it, and if you put a VFD on it, with the speed pot
    on a pendant, you could ramp it up as slow as you would like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Custommachining View Post
    If I could purchase an old manual from you that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
    If I still had that manual I'd send it to you! I did buy a pile of manuals from Curtis-Wright, they had just about every machine manual ever made in their maintenance files. Most I gave away or sold. I'll look to see what I have but I know the manual I bought from Bullard went with the machine.
    I too like the clutch as opposed to the electronic control and the foot operated clutch on the Bullard was great, 2 hands free to do something else while my foot controlled spindle rotation and brake.

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    I don't have direct experience with Bullard VBMs. However, at Tuckahoe we do have two Bullard VTL, both driven with flat belt.
    The older one has a cone pulley and no clutch, The "younger one" (late teens, I believe) has a single pulley and an internal gearbox and a clutch. Personally, I would be extremely hesitant in bypassing the clutch in that machine. My understanding is that there is an oil pump powered by the input shaft and that oil pump is supposed to run always, not only when the clutch is engaged.
    If the machine has been designed to be run that way, you probably risk to accelerate significantly the wear if you start the spindle at the same time as the oil pump.
    If the machine in question is early enough not to have any oil pump, probably it doesn't matter much as long as all parts are generously lubricated before starting.

    Paolo

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    Sorry, I'm rather slow in connecting the dots. If the VTL in question is the one from this thread (Price Filler Machine Shop in Roanoke, VA), I don't believe it had any clutch in the first place.
    Together with other Tuckahoe volunteers we went there inspecting that and other machines. Unfortunately, I didn't take great pictures of that one, thinking that we would get it into our Museum. One thing that I remember is the loud noise of the bevel gears driving the spindle and I suspected that the bearing was worn too much and the gears meshing too tight.

    Paolo

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    Yes I'll post some pictures this evening

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    Default 1905 Bullard VBM Pictures

    Here are a few pictures of the machine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190411_184524.jpg   20190411_184500.jpg   20190411_184551.jpg   20190411_184627.jpg   20190411_184647.jpg  


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    That's a beauty. Most likley used a moveable pulley on the line shaft to start and stop the machine, no clutch as such



    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Default 1905 Bullard VBM Pictures

    More pictures....can someone give me a heads-up on how to rotate pictures. The pictures are upright in my computer but become rotated when I download to the site.......???
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190411_184751.jpg   20190411_184732.jpg   20190411_185037.jpg   20190411_184840.jpg   20190411_184658.jpg  


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    Default 1905 Bullard VBM Pictures

    More pictures.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190411_185216.jpg   20190411_185004.jpg   20190411_185016.jpg   20190411_185153.jpg  

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    Default 1905 Bullard VBM Clutch Assembly

    This what I'm installing on the VBM. Scroll down once the page becomes available after clicking on the hyperlink below.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Sharp...97.m4902.l9144

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    Flippin' da Photags:
    bullard.jpgbullard-1.jpgbullard-2.jpgbullard-3.jpg
    John


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