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    Just a kindly note.. Lawyers hate tort reform. Anyone care to say why? 1/3 off the top is pretty good incentive.. Ramsay 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsay1 View Post
    I removed a whole bunch of asbestos siding.. Put it in the truck and sent it to the dump....Still alive even lol.. Knock on wood....Ramsay 1
    Your either lucky, or a fool, or both, can't decide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Your either lucky, or a fool, or both, can't decide.
    Maybe God protected me.. He always has and will until the day I die. Asbestos siding is not nuclear waste.. There is a house next to mine with both house and garage sided in asbestos as it has been for over fifty years.. Should I have my neighbor evicted and his home destroyed? Ramsay 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Your either lucky, or a fool, or both, can't decide.
    Asbestos siding is relatively safe to remove, installing it where it needs to be cut to size is more likely to cause inhalation exposure. Biggest removal job I did was 15,000 square feet of floor tile, I wet the surface first, popped the tiles off and triple bagged them, and heaved out the window into roll-off dumpster, mopped floor when done. To be safe I did wear a respirator, and had .2 micron air scrubber running the whole time. I have helped a few friends to remove their old furnace too, somehow I always forget to haul the coal stoker to the dump. The most fun, is needle scaling old drywall compound with 2% asbestos off concrete walls, I use a dust collector on the needle scaler and it all gets sucked into a water trap, all air from water trap then goes thru .2 micron air scrubber. Like many things we work with, a little common sense goes a long way in reducing exposure.

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    For those who weren't working before OSHA and EPA became all powerful protectors, the picture is far different than it is for those of us who worked in the pre-safety world. Safety in the 50s was insurance carrier driven, not a company function, and I learned early on my primary responsibility through the work day was working in a manner to insure I walked out at end of day. The suits didn't care, if I went down they'd replace me as they had the man before me. If I got hauled out in an ambulance the suits would do their best to hang that bill on me for company profit.

    I could do page upon page on jobs I walked away from because I was damned if I'd kill myself for the companys profit. I was the rat who memorized the State Labor Safety Department phone number, and used it in situations like a new school going up with a mortar mixer running inside the building and filling the place with Carbon Monoxide because the general contractor wouldn't spend the money to pipe the exhaust outside. I also called when the beer foundry expected me to crawl out on a beam and employ a wet wood ladder to bridge the gap from beam to tank 80 feet above the floor in total darkness. They felt a flashlight and backbreaker belt with 15 feet of rope and nothing but the wet beam I was expected to walk to tie off to was sufficient. I felt differently and pointed out Iron Workers don't walk steel in the rain and neither do I. NY State arrived and agreed with me, costing the owner of the beer foundry a month in Jamaca that winter when he had to install the catwalks that should have gone in when the place was built. Employers were very comfortable in the 60s knowing they could and would find somebody who needed a job bad enough to take the risk.

    Before OSHA an injured worker stood dam little chance of finding a Lawyer to take a case against a company. It wasn't profitable for the Lawyer. After OSHA many companys went out of business because it wasn't cost effective to come into compliance. One I remember well was making sump pumps in 65, a line of camelback drill presses processed raw castings from Mexico in half a dozen operations into a pump base while an ancient lathe cut impellers on shafts to size so the next man in line could assemble the pup onto the new GE motor. Only the shop forman needed to speak English because Porto Ricans worked cheaper. The shop closed the day OSHA started. The owner estimated it would take 12 years to get back to profitable if he brought in compliant machines.

    I also remember the time Wonder Bread had to pick up all the bread they delivered because it was turning purple on store shelves. For days bread was hauled in from Utica and Buffalo while they wondered how bread turned purple and then sanitized the bakery to get back into production. Gallons of germicide that would kill and eat any microbe were sprayed into that bakery and the biggest problem was keeping the Health Department from finding out. Second biggest problem was replacing conveyor belts the germicide weakened considerably.

    By the time EPA came along many suits knew enough to hide the evidence. We had a ship builder who built a yard in 6 months and produced 72 tankers in the following 2 years, killing only 2 men in the process. The yard eventually became a scrap processing facility and bumper rechroming shop. The owner in the 70s saw EPA coming and disappeared 20,000 gallons of riveted tanks inside a containment curb before the government saw them.
    When EPA came along and discovered hazardous chrome on the property the owner got his assessment lowered to $1- and claimed the chrome was from shipbuilding. He convinced young men with college degrees those tankers contained chrome, and the taxpayers are still paying for cleanup. Naturally he sold the property. New owner decided to scrap the crane frame and building to remelt, and did so he can build another vital shopping plaza. The wreckers just strung barricade tape and hung Asbestos Hazard signs and got to cutting. There was never any asbestos but the signs kept people away.

    It is the nature of business to walk away from assets that no longer produce profit. To management workers are just another asset. Such is and always has been the way of the world.

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    Most have no idea of the volume of dust asbestos produced by motorvehicles with brake and clutch linings ....There are still plenty of NOS asbestos linings being sold by individuals who got the shoes,clutch plates ,and linings cheap or free,when the stuff was outed.....A twin plate 16 1/2 " truck clutch will produce a shovelfull of dust before it wears out.....Similar to truck brakes ...20 lbs of asbestos linings end up as airborne dust as the brakes wear....Every time a vintage car or truck show is held,there will be plenty of dust in the air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Most have no idea of the volume of dust asbestos produced by motorvehicles with brake and clutch linings ....There are still plenty of NOS asbestos linings being sold by individuals who got the shoes,clutch plates ,and linings cheap or free,when the stuff was outed.....A twin plate 16 1/2 " truck clutch will produce a shovelfull of dust before it wears out.....Similar to truck brakes ...20 lbs of asbestos linings end up as airborne dust as the brakes wear....Every time a vintage car or truck show is held,there will be plenty of dust in the air.
    Please don't disclose that to trial lawyers... Crane friction linings were the best with asbestos.. They lasted a long time, had a good feel to them, no chattering and also did not wear the mating surface....When they did need service however, the first thing we did was haul up an air hose and blow everything out so we could get to the pins and cotters to get the bands out for relining.. I suppose God looks after fools and crazy people.. As far as I know I am healthy at age 66... Ramsay 1

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    Talking

    Ramsay1 I bet your the type of guy who rode bicycles and went horseback riding without helmets? Probably made bombs out of acetylene/oxy mix? And listened to Firesign theatre. You should be ashamed. And I hope you know I am kidding. Can't get smiley face to stick?

    As stated above a little common sense can go a long way with safety. I gave up a long time ago thinking that my employer was going to be my mommy. They are in business to make money. Some are more cut throat and mean spirited than others. But even in the bad old days of industry producing things in this country it was crazy to think of the management having your best interest at heart. I was brought up that it was your responsibility to know your limits or willingness to do something dangerous. Being macho played into their hands but it was what it was. I way to often agreed to things that I would not do today. I never called anybody, if it was that bad of an idea I just refused to do it under the grounds it was to dangerous or what ever. Most of the time there were others willing to take more chances. But they called me when they had dicy crane work on 2nd shift and the foreman's knew if I refused to do it, they might be asking for trouble. As Joe stated earlier there was always or at least often certain risks you took in your daily job. It was the accepted practice of the times. Off topic of asbestos, but working in industry especially heavy industry risk comes with the territory. The individual has to take responsibility to know when to say "aint gonna happen". I think back to a number of times I was just plain stupid to do what I was told. It is why armies don't send old farts into battle very often. Young guys will go, old farts say "ain't gonna happen".

    Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield? Nothing to do with asbestos issues other than our old weld shop was dusty and no doubt had some fibers floating around. Had a very heavy column for some sort of paper machine that weighed 20 tons plus. It was not a perfectly squared up weldment and was tapered in the length. Our crane was supposedly beefed up to handle 15 tons. For a young stupid fellow I was not a bad crane operator. Was told to flip it over so nobody got hurt. I hooked it up and did not like the way it handled. rehooked a number of times. Eventually I set it back down and refused to do it. Only time I recall refusing any crane work. A fitter came along and boasted "no guts no glory". "Have at er says I". He lost control when it tipped, the trolley ran away and smashed into the end of the crane stops and the huge column ended up resting against a wall. The spring loaded pulleys that provide power jumped off the electrical cables so the crane was now dead {no power}. Yup no guts no glory. This was in early 1970s. Osha had been to our shop. Didn't help anything, was an old toilet of a shop and was torn down in the 1990s. Pick your poison. Asbestos or not, you have to take responsibility for your choices. Of course your bosses boss is not going to accept responsibility for telling you to do something dangerous or illegal. Does anybody really think the top is going to take the fall? Push the sweeper down a flight of stairs and blame him or somebody but not the at the top. It is not the way it goes and never did. It was shameful in many instances the poor working conditions and known dangers kept secret from the workers. No two ways about it. But in the last 40-50 yrs it was much better than in the 1920s. All the old guys I knew back in the early 70s had the attitude "you can ask me, but you can't make me". I adopted that attitude early on. But I still took way to many chances. And it is on me not anybody else. Always wondered where the weld shops asbestos blankets ended up. Used them to cool things slowly when welding cast dogs onto steel winch drums or where ever was needed. We didn't know and we didn't care. Blissful ignorance the 1970s.

    Regards, John.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsay1 View Post
    Please don't disclose that to trial lawyers... Crane friction linings were the best with asbestos.. They lasted a long time, had a good feel to them, no chattering and also did not wear the mating surface....When they did need service however, the first thing we did was haul up an air hose and blow everything out so we could get to the pins and cotters to get the bands out for relining.. I suppose God looks after fools and crazy people.. As far as I know I am healthy at age 66... Ramsay 1
    It can take up to 40 or 50 years for the disease to emerge after the initial exposure.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    It can take up to 40 or 50 years for the disease to emerge after the initial exposure.

    Regards Tyrone.

    Portal 2: Asbestos and science - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by adh2000 View Post
    An interesting quote from Wikipedia:

    "An audit of the Manville Trust conducted in the late 1990s determined that 41 percent of its claimants either had no disease or a less severe condition than alleged on their claim form. The doctors used most often by claimants had false claims rates of 63 percent.[11]"
    I wish I could find that quote but for some reason, I cannot... Cheers

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    All a bunch of BS, remember when Kent cigarettes had the asbestos "Micronite filter"!
    Combining tobacco and asbestos, cancelled each other out and made a refreshing and healthful product!
    One could suck that thing right to the end without burning a lip, welder approved!
    I believe in the scientific testing at the time, Kent Smokers outlived Lucky Strike smokers two to one.

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    I hate the BS vice news but here’s a link to a video of theirs I enjoyed, take everything said in this video with a TON of salt because both sides are doing their best to paint a picture.


    Hope it haven’t already been posted

    https://youtu.be/cy3piCUPIkc

    I worked around air cell Asbestos everyday now, STILL DO. We have a few old building we work on that have air cell wrapped steam pipes, we just don’t touch it.

    If there’s a leak or issue requiring removal we farm it out to the local squirty bois and they farm it out to a Asbestos removal company. Oh how Bureaucracy works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Your either lucky, or a fool, or both, can't decide.
    My grand father was a carpenter, he got into the (bad) Niche of removing Asbestos siding back when everyone was getting afraid of it,

    he’d go to the local bridge, pull some guys from under it for a few bucks and rip all the tiles off the house in a few hours and disappear, no PPE no permits no BS.

    Paid up front of course, wasn’t the Asbestos that killed him, it was the red Irish rose every day for 60 years.

    Guess they should of warned him about booze not asbestos

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    All a bunch of BS, remember when Kent cigarettes had the asbestos "Micronite filter"!
    Combining tobacco and asbestos, cancelled each other out and made a refreshing and healthful product!
    One could suck that thing right to the end without burning a lip, welder approved!
    I believe in the scientific testing at the time, Kent Smokers outlived Lucky Strike smokers two to one.
    Donie I’m glad to see you around here and interacting with us all again, we all Benefit from your input when you Contribute, I much prefer this guy!

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    In a parallel to asbestos,there is now a fuss here over silicosis deaths caused by the widespread use of "manufactured stone" kitchen benchtops.....The manufacture of these benchtops requires a very minimum of capital equipment,most operators having no more than a collection of angle grinders of varying sizes.....Dust collection being completely absent as labourers work breathing clouds of dust.....Suddenly the authorities have discovered the industry,about twenty years too late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    Donie I’m glad to see you around here and interacting with us all again, we all Benefit from your input when you Contribute, I much prefer this guy!
    There is one person that certainly does not want me to post here, I am sure I will never know why, doesnt matter anyway.
    This subject caught my eye, because I fit genuine Raybestos brake shoes to semi trailers in the early 1970s.
    Just another thing that is going to kill me, that I was exposed to long ago....when I am supposed to be dead already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    There is one person that certainly does not want me to post here, I am sure I will never know why, doesnt matter anyway.
    This subject caught my eye, because I fit genuine Raybestos brake shoes to semi trailers in the early 1970s.
    Just another thing that is going to kill me, that I was exposed to long ago....when I am supposed to be dead already.
    Yeah, well I must have nine lives.. Asbestos, lead, smoking, chemicals, grain dust, blasting sand, welding fumes, paint fumes, you name it.. Now they say the covid boogie man is going to kill me.. Wow how did I make it to age 68? Cheers; Ramsay 1

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    There is many cancers.

    It’s not a “you get it or you don’t” kinda thing.

    It’s WHEN will you get it.

    If it takes 125 years to manifest in your body then it’s a non issue, 12 years to manifest then it’s a big issue.
    12 weeks and it’s a nightmare.

    My brothers bone marrow dna was damaged from benzene exposure, that damaged dna code started building damaged white blood cells.

    Those damaged white blood cells were not functioning correctly and started attacking healthy cells and more.

    Just like a cnc with a bugged code, originally the code was perfect and made beautiful parts but once the code was damaged it started making ugly parts that still worked so no one really noticed and keep shipping them out the door(a cough here or there).

    But keep playing with things that damage your code (chemicals/cigarettes and so on) and eventually that cnc is going to start making parts that are too dangerous to use and prone to failure.


    What’s worse is that cnc starts going overboard and flooding the room with faulty parts but your shipping team keeps shipping out the parts as fast as they can.

    Sometimes it’s too late to find the plug and pull it, rooms too full now. (Immune system failing to kill bad cells)

    those faulty parts now out in the world start to fail bringing whole buildings down.

    You rebuild the building but use more faulty parts.

    The last step is when those faulty parts start to bang into healthy cnc machines, pressing buttons and damaging their code as well causing them to also build faulty parts.

    At that point the whole world is getting filled with faulty parts and (your body) starts falling apart and crumbling away.

    But there’s hope, find the address or zip code to the original cnc that’s gone Rogue and NUKE the city it’s in, BURN it to the ground (chemotherapy)

    no more faulty parts are being made so you start to repair the world.

    Now you destroyed the bad cnc, but you’ve got to rebuild, and when rebuilding your also installing new cnc’s, and this is risky as you may very well end up building another bugged cnc, or MORE likely you end up building MULTIPLE bad cnc.

    This is where ppl get the misconception that cancer sometimes fights back, now the cancer (faulty parts) are growing at an Exponential rate even faster then before.


    It’s not a if, it’s a when.

    Amazing we live past 15 honestly, you have damaged cells every day, the body and even the cells themselves nip it in the bud.


    But one day it won’t die, but spread.

    Asbestos creates knots/scars in the lung tissue.

    Those scars are in themselves damaged cells.

    Scar tissue is already playing it fast and loose, it’s one thing to follow the blueprints and identify faulty parts when building a human, not so easy to do when there is no blueprint to follow (tissue damage repair)

    Alter all, scar tissue looks like it does because it’s not exactly following a blueprint, if it was then it wouldn’t be a scar, it would look just like surrounding tissue.

    But as someone said, some people just get unlucky and the runaways cells prosper, others like Ramsey live on as the bad cells get nipped in the bud.

    It’s a gambling game and play (live) long enough you’ll eventually get a bad hand

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    That percentage of relation between mesothelioma and asbestos that was mentioned...... I am pretty sure that it is NOT the chance of getting mesothelioma if you worked with asbestos........

    As I understand, it is the chance that IF you have mesothelioma you did work with asbestos. Apparently that is about an 80 or 90 percent chance that if you have it, that it was caused by asbestos.

    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    ..........
    This subject caught my eye, because I fit genuine Raybestos brake shoes to semi trailers in the early 1970s.
    ................
    I wondered when that name was going to come up. My wife's aunt lives in Crawfordsville Indiana. Driving around there when we visit, we sometimes go past a big Raybestos plant.

    They seem to still make something there, but I bet it is no longer asbestos brake linings.


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