1943 Rockford Planer "The Beast" - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 42 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 829
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    7,916
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1103
    Likes (Received)
    4908

    Default

    One place I worked at I had to adjust the drive chains of a 6" spindle " Richards " Hor bore. This involved climbing up to the top of the column and getting inside the pulley box on top of the column. There was a really large planing machine about 10 or 12ft away across the aisle.

    While I was in the pulley box sorting out the drive chains the planer operator switched on the planer. When the table stroke was reversed the whole of the Hor bore column seemed to shudder. I could definitely feel the earth move.

    Regards Tyrone.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    313
    Likes (Received)
    130

    Default

    It took a few tries to tip the column on its side. Ultimately we did it a little differently. My phone died so I don't have pictures of that. We tied the base off to another tractor( Jose has no end of vehicles as far as I can tell), and used the forklift on the side arm. Once it was on its side, the Terex picked it up again and placed it in the trailer.

    Having never worked with anything this heavy, I was pleasantly surprised how well it went. Taking it slow and changing tactics as needed got the job done! We could not have done it without Jose and Hose B's help. 'Help' is the wrong word, I just tried to stay out of the way while they did all the heavy lifting.

    2016-03-06-10.45.29-small.jpg

    A very large bathroom scale that I stood on it without realizing it. Darn accurate, the red numbers read "you need to go on a diet"

    2016-03-06-10.12.40-small.jpg

  3. Likes Blazemaster, true temper, dkmc liked this post
  4. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Posts
    6,209
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    9107
    Likes (Received)
    2902

    Default

    "All I could think of when I saw the pictures and youtube was: "there's gonna be a lot of stoning of the mating surfaces before that column goes back onto the bed".

    Yep. I just cringed at the sight of the column base sitting on the concrete scale platform.

  5. Likes rj1939 liked this post
  6. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    southern il
    Posts
    847
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    139
    Likes (Received)
    291

    Default

    Yes............wood is your friend when setting things down on machined surfaces

  7. Likes swatkins, Tyrone Shoelaces liked this post
  8. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    "All I could think of when I saw the pictures and youtube was: "there's gonna be a lot of stoning of the mating surfaces before that column goes back onto the bed".

    Yep. I just cringed at the sight of the column base sitting on the concrete scale platform.
    I would cringe too IF that was a machined surface but it is not. That surface has been sitting on concrete and dirt since 1943.

    The column bolts to the side of the base and those surfaces were protected during the move...

    Give us a little bit of credit
    Last edited by swatkins; 03-08-2016 at 06:45 PM.

  9. Likes Demon73, 4GSR, Edgar10937, MCritchley, ariyama and 3 others liked this post
  10. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    Here is a picture of the base mating surface. The base of the machine is on the right and the critical surface is on the left.

    20160308_162031_resized.jpg

  11. Likes ariyama liked this post
  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Michaels View Post
    The design of a concrete foundation depends on the type of soil or "subgrade" in the shop where the planer is to be located. The foundation serves three purposes:

    1. provides a solid support for the bed and column of the planer

    2. spreads the load out from the bearing surfaces on the bed & column bases, converting what is more of an "edge load" to a uniformly distributed load

    3. acts as an inertia block to absorb the energy of the planer strokes and stopping of the platen, particularly on the quicker return stroke

    4. Adds mass to dampen any vibration during interuppted or heavy cuts

    5. In areas where frost is an issue, particularly in unheated shops or shops where the heat is on only when the shop is working, a foundation extending below the frost line assures the machine will stay levelled and aligned.

    Thanks for taking the time to explain all that Joe

    Over here in Southeast Texas we don't have to worry about frost heaving What I do have to worry about are slabs that sink into the poor clay soil. My home is about 40 feet from the shop and to insure a stable slab I had to sink bell bottom piers 22' to reach a stable soil level.

    My shop has a floating slab that was poured on a 3 foot thick layer of select fill. About a year ago I poured an addition that has 6" slab with 24 inch beams, all with #5 rebar.

    As I was trying to live within my budget I decided to go ahead and pour the slab and place the machines without piers. I have a 25 ton hydraulic ram and power pack that is used to press precast cylinders into the earth, one after another until the point of refusal is reached and the column supports the weight of the slab above it.

    Have you had any experience with machines that have been placed on pier supported slabs?

  13. Likes ariyama liked this post
  14. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    55
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    218
    Likes (Received)
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    About a month ago PM Member ariyama (Andy) and I were looking over the bed of his Bridgeport mill as it was being inspected during our scraping class. Andy had just gotten a price of 1250.00 to grind that table and we were trying to come up with ideas on how we could handle it ourselves. A few ideas were tossed about and I said "I sure wish we had a planer".... And that is how this whole story started

    The search for a planer started soon after the class ended. Ebay, craig's list, and auctions sites were searched with nothing suitable found. I even tracked down the sister of a man that passed away 5 years ago asking if she still had his old planer! Just as things were looking bleak johnoder mentioned the gbent had a old hydraulic planer stored in a shed at a secret location somewhere south of Canada. He suggested that I contact the man and work something out, which I did.

    Saturday Andy drove over from Austin and we set out on a long trip to disassemble and bring the Beast to Navasota..

    We arrived at the secret location just before sunset after 12 hours of nonstop driving. The planer had been living in a machinery shed for a few years and were anxious to have a look at the machine.

    Attachment 165154

    Andy was standing back watching as we climbed all over the machine and remarked that any machine that could handle two men climbing all over it was a Beast! The name stuck

    To protect the innocent almost all names have been changed in this story. (Andy is not an innocent) Our Host, Jose, had another Forum member, Hose B, visiting him and he was a great help in loading the beast for the return trip to Navasota. In fact without the generous help from Jose and Hose B this project would have never happened. Their knowledge, skill and hard work made a very difficult project look like child's play. Thank you gentlemen, I will forever be in your debt.

    Andy and I arrived at Jose's farm very tired and without a place to sleep. It seems that softball is a very popular sport in that area and all the hotels (3) were booked. Jose's wonderful wife invited us in for dinner and soon fixed us up with reservation at a small hotel in town. The food was GREAT and soon after the meal we passed out for the night.

    Sunday morning we started moving the Beast.

    The Beast weighs right at 22000 pounds, is 22 feet long and 10 foot high. The bed is 32 inches wide and has a stroke of 93 inches.. We just didn't have the budget for hiring riggers and a semi to haul the machine 800 miles so we had to use our own resources. My trailers and pickup can haul 24500 pounds total GVW so we needed to break the machine up to fit my weight restrictions. This move is going to require two trips. The plan was to remove the column from the bed and transport it on the trailer while using the bed of the truck to haul the hydraulic pump assembly. I had also planned on removing the table from the bed to reduce the weight of the bed if needed. As it turned out the column was 7600 pounds and the pump weighed in at 2350 pounds which was close enough to my target weight.

    Right now the first load is at my shop and we plan on making the second trip in a couple of weeks. Our second load consists of the tooling and the base of the machine. For that load I'm taking a 22' tilting bed gooseneck trailer. The planer bed is in a location where we can back right up to the end, tilt the trailer and winch the bed up using pipe rollers. The hard work was all done on the first trip where it took 6 hours to disassemble and load up.

    The Beast is going to live at my shop, exactly where I haven't a clue Andy and I are going to go through the machine cleaning and repairing items as we find them.

    Here are a few more pictures..

    Steve,
    I knew this would happen after I showed you the one for sale during the class, the seed was planted, I wish I lived closer so I could help get it running again
    Edgar

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    Ever heard of an airplane?

  16. Likes ariyama liked this post
  17. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    A little progress to report today...

    I currently only have a 10 hp RPC unit powering the shop. This machine is going to need a 20 hp unit. I started a search for a motor before we left for the secret location somewhere South of Canada. Luckily I found a good motor that had just been removed from a commercial air conditioner as part of a routine replacement schedule. The best part was the motor was only 40 miles away! I picked up the motor and it's sitting in the shop waiting on a control box now.

    My 10 hp unit has a control box from Phase-Craft and I just love it. Connect 7 wires to the box, push the start button and well balanced 3 phase power is flowing to the machines Just can't be simpler.... A call to Phase-Craft was all it took to have them start making me the same box for the 20 hp unit and I expect it to be here next week.

    Even more exciting for me is the fact that I know where the machine will be placed inside the shop. For those of you that have visited my shop I will be moving the 3 x 6 surface plate and the big band saw in order to place the planer there. The concrete is 6" thick there with a 24 inch beam right beside it. If needed I can remove some concrete and press in piers underneath the base's leveling screws once the machine is in place. That way I know the piers will support the machines weight. I might move the machine to a new slab and building later if SHMBO caves in

    20150420_194500_resized.jpg

    Placing the machine in this location is going to be tricky. The ceiling directly over the machine is 14' high but it slopes down to 10' on the wall that is 18 foot away. To make it even harder the overhead door to that space is 9 foot tall. A forklift is going to be tricky to use due to door / ceiling height and the 500.00 dollar rental fee might be wasted because of limited use of the machine. I have to stand up the 9' tall column and move it into place before I can unload the base into the building. The column weighs 7600 lbs.

    With that in mind I have come up with a simple plan. There is currently a wood beam almost directly above the area the column needs to be. That beam is made up of 4 #2 YP 2x12's supported at each end by king studs, span is 17'. The 2 x 12's are nailed together but it would be very easy to through bolt them to make it a stiffer beam. I was thinking about attaching a 5 ton chain fall to the beam so that I can lift and rotate the column into place.

    Anyone know how to calculate the weight that beam could carry?

  18. Likes ariyama liked this post
  19. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lexington, VA
    Posts
    611
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    155
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    Not sure what it will carry now but if you reduce the span with a temporary support it will carry more. Also consider the roof load already on it. Might take some head scratching to figure a strong attachment method for your 4 ton chain fall, if you determine the beam can take it.

  20. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    55
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    218
    Likes (Received)
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    A little progress to report today...

    I currently only have a 10 hp RPC unit powering the shop. This machine is going to need a 20 hp unit. I started a search for a motor before we left for the secret location somewhere South of Canada. Luckily I found a good motor that had just been removed from a commercial air conditioner as part of a routine replacement schedule. The best part was the motor was only 40 miles away! I picked up the motor and it's sitting in the shop waiting on a control box now.

    My 10 hp unit has a control box from Phase-Craft and I just love it. Connect 7 wires to the box, push the start button and well balanced 3 phase power is flowing to the machines Just can't be simpler.... A call to Phase-Craft was all it took to have them start making me the same box for the 20 hp unit and I expect it to be here next week.

    Even more exciting for me is the fact that I know where the machine will be placed inside the shop. For those of you that have visited my shop I will be moving the 3 x 6 surface plate and the big band saw in order to place the planer there. The concrete is 6" thick there with a 24 inch beam right beside it. If needed I can remove some concrete and press in piers underneath the base's leveling screws once the machine is in place. That way I know the piers will support the machines weight. I might move the machine to a new slab and building later if SHMBO caves in

    20150420_194500_resized.jpg

    Placing the machine in this location is going to be tricky. The ceiling directly over the machine is 14' high but it slopes down to 10' on the wall that is 18 foot away. To make it even harder the overhead door to that space is 9 foot tall. A forklift is going to be tricky to use due to door / ceiling height and the 500.00 dollar rental fee might be wasted because of limited use of the machine. I have to stand up the 9' tall column and move it into place before I can unload the base into the building. The column weighs 7600 lbs.

    With that in mind I have come up with a simple plan. There is currently a wood beam almost directly above the area the column needs to be. That beam is made up of 4 #2 YP 2x12's supported at each end by king studs, span is 17'. The 2 x 12's are nailed together but it would be very easy to through bolt them to make it a stiffer beam. I was thinking about attaching a 5 ton chain fall to the beam so that I can lift and rotate the column into place.

    Anyone know how to calculate the weight that beam could carry?
    Steve,
    I don't know how to calculate what the beam can carry, I looked at it in class but, don't remember. Can you add a plate on each side then thru bolt to make it stronger?

  21. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Shandaken, NY, USA
    Posts
    4,196
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1088
    Likes (Received)
    6585

    Default

    S. Watkins:

    I am glad you apprecaited my notes on concrete machinery foundations. You have come up with a very innovative way of making what may be termed "concrete bearing piles" to support the shop slab. The design you have come up with is a well-used and well-proven thing. In areas where soil does not have required bearing capacity, or there may be water (such as building out over a river, lake, etc), concrete piles are quite commonly used. What is often done is to pour "grade beams" which span the piles. The grade beams are reinforced concrete beams. Or, imbed plates are set in the concrete on top of each pile and steel grade beams welded to them. A deck slab, or the building structure is then build on top of the grade beams. What you have come up with is the use of steel grade beams to help carry your slab, and a very heavily reinforced slab. Taking the piles to refusal, as you note, is the ideal thing. You are lucky to hit refusal so close to the surface. I've been on some jobs where refusal was 125 feet below grade. On that job, we were dealing with land reclaimed many years earlier along the banks of the Hudson River. What looked like "land" and would support vehicles and smaller structures was anything but "competent". It was random fill, thousands of yards of busted brick rubble, overburden soil, clinkers and cinders, and anything else that was available. We knew this from test borings. We'd start driving pilings, and they would "run under the weight of the hammer". No hammering needed after the first 2-3 blows. The H piles with the diesel hammer on top of them would slide into the ground, and were it not for a hole burned in the web at the top of each H pile and hooked to the whipline of the crane, we'd have lost the piles. We then butt welded on splices and wound up putting down three (3) 40 foot lengths of pile with a driving point, adding a final piece before we hit refusal. When we did, things would ring like a church bell.

    You have done a fine piece of engineering and built a very solid floor for your machine tools. The way in which you are setting the piers is somewhat like a caisson type of foundation system, which uses round reinforced concrete piers of relatively short length/larger diameter to support a structure. Regardless of terminology, you are on a very sound footing (pardon the pun) in your thinking and how you went about it.

    As for my comment about "stoning", I meant only the scraped/fitted surfaces of the joint between the column and the bed of the planer. When I saw the bottom of the column on the scale, I figured it was not a finish-machined or critical surface. Having seen an openside planer mill come apart and go together, I was sure this was the case with the Rockford Hy-Draulic openside planer you got.

    As for the wood beam, you are on the right track with through-bolting to stiffen the "built up girder" made of the (4) 2 x 12's. 17 feet is quite a long span to hang a load like the column of the planer off of for a beam made of (4) 2 x 12's. Two approaches suggest themselves:

    1. move the column under the beam on skates or any way you can. I am guessing you need the rigging to "right" the column and get it standing up.

    2. reinforce the beam by "flitching" it. Flitching is the addition of steel plates or channels either sandwiched inside between two timber beams, or sandwiching the wood beam from the outside. Flitching was commonly done in wood construction of mill buildings and other places where either a long span or heavier loads were to be carried by wooden beams.

    3. temporarily shore the beam. A couple of 6 x 6 wood columns with some shims driven in to make sure the load is transferred to the columns would be one approach. Or, jack under the beam so it comes up maybe 1/8-1/4" and work the wood columns and shims into place, then let off the jack. I'd also add some lateral bracing on that beam as my gut sense is that it is likely to twist with the concentrated (point) load from the chainfall.

    While the (4) 2 x 12's may be able to carry a significant load, even over a 17 ft span, the length of the span is another killer. Building some bracing on the beam and shoring it is equivalent to building a temporary gantry out of wood and whatever else is on hand.

    Wife and I are headed out the door on a long awaited road trip, so I will be out of circulation for a week. Wife is hollering at me to get my a-- in gear, or I'd run some numbers. Good luck with your rigging project and I wish you infinitely many years of safe, and successful use of that Rockford Planer.

  22. Likes swatkins, ariyama liked this post
  23. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cottage Grove, MN 55016
    Posts
    7,462
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4027
    Likes (Received)
    4463

    Default

    I was thinking you could contact a wrecker company that have a HD crane on the back of the wrecker like this one. Heavy Towing & Heavy Wrecker Service College Station, TX | BDS Towing in College Station. And have them lift the column on after the base is inside the door. You could also put some long 6 x 6's under the bed and use steel rollers to help position the machine in the shop and then raise one end at a time and tetter totter the 6' x 6's out and using a saw sill to cut the 6x6's into shorter sections.

    Would cost a lot more if the shop caved in using the wood beam. Rich

    PS: Be sure to remember to tell the helpers rule 5

  24. Likes MCritchley, ariyama liked this post
  25. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lexington, VA
    Posts
    611
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    155
    Likes (Received)
    233

    Default

    Run the numbers on just the four thick 2x12 beam to cary 8,000 lb.
    I expect you'll find that the max span is about 5' for that load. A 10' span with 8,000lb on it might be about 200% of the allowable load, and 17' about 300%.
    That's not a substitute for having your own engineering done but might give an idea what you'll find.

    Joe's suggestion to prop the beam with stiff legs/post means they'd need to be 5' or less apart at the top. They could be canted if you can resist the ends from slipping. Cant them enough that they meet in the center and you've made an A-frame and the ridge just keeps it from falling over front to back.

    I'd investigate the forklift options or a portable gantry crane

    Grigg

  26. Likes ariyama liked this post
  27. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,360
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    239
    Likes (Received)
    479

    Default

    Richard, I don't think the toe truck will work, not enough head room. The colum is too tall, and by the time you get your rigging on it there will be no room for the boom.

  28. Likes ariyama liked this post
  29. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    Right now that beam is carrying a load of 500lbs for the light metal roof. I can always add metal plates to make it a fletch beam but that would be a lot of money for a one time use.

    After some sleep I also thought of another way out of this mess

    I have a length of I-Beam that could be used to make a more useful beam. I have to go measure it to see if it would be strong enough and long enough. My thoughts were to place the bottom of the beam at about 10'6" from the concrete floor. Use 4" schedule 40 pipe to support the I-Beam at each wall and brace off the existing walls to the pipe column. I can then add temporary columns to reduce the span to about 11' after the trailer is backed into position for unloading. Idealy it would be great to have a trolley and chain fall that would shift the column nearer to it's final position once stood upright.

    I would not mind installing the I-Beam if it will do the job. If I permanently install it, in the right position, it would be very useful for lifting heavy objects onto the planer bed. It would also be a good use of materials I already have on hand

  30. Likes ariyama liked this post
  31. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,360
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    239
    Likes (Received)
    479

    Default

    Steve, can we get a better photo of the beam in your shop? Sure wish I lived near, I have a bunch of I beams and other good stuff in my junk yard. It's going to take some planning to get the column stood up, to lay it down we had a loader, forklift, and a farm tractor to tie it off to. And did I mention plenty of room to work.

  32. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    The I-Beam I have is 8" tall with 4" flanges. The flange is 1/4" thick at the very edge and gets thicker toward the web. Plate thickness between the flanges is also 1/4"

  33. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2589
    Likes (Received)
    1957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by true temper View Post
    Steve, can we get a better photo of the beam in your shop? Sure wish I lived near, I have a bunch of I beams and other good stuff in my junk yard. It's going to take some planning to get the column stood up, to lay it down we had a loader, forklift, and a farm tractor to tie it off to. And did I mention plenty of room to work.
    Pictures later

  34. Likes ariyama liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •