1943 Rockford Planer "The Beast" - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    I'm not a structural engineer so consider yourself warned. A simple calculation with SYP design values for your 17' beam shows it would hold a little over 4,000 lb. Note that this treats your beam as if it were a single piece of wood with adequate support at the ends and is under a point load in the middle with no twist. I think your steel I beam could be useful though. Vestil sells an 10ft wide 8,000 lb load gantry crane (FHS-8-10) that uses a 8" tall by 4" wide I beam. I'm not sure how thick the I beam they use is but, if it is a standard I beam, it should be about the same as yours.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by true temper View Post
    Steve, can we get a better photo of the beam in your shop? Sure wish I lived near, I have a bunch of I beams and other good stuff in my junk yard. It's going to take some planning to get the column stood up, to lay it down we had a loader, forklift, and a farm tractor to tie it off to. And did I mention plenty of room to work.
    20160310_094931_resized_1.jpg20160310_095019_resized_1.jpg

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    The I-Beam I have is 8" tall with 4" flanges. The flange is 1/4" thick at the very edge and gets thicker toward the web. Plate thickness between the flanges is also 1/4"
    S 8 X 18.4 Lb. Only has 14.4 Section Modulus per Manual of Steel Construction by A.I.S.C.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    S 8 X 18.4 Lb. Only has 14.4 Section Modulus per Manual of Steel Construction by A.I.S.C.
    John do you have the charts or formulas to convert that to how much load the beam will carry with a 10' span?

    More pictures... After 7 hours of cleaning we can start to see stuff on the power unit!

    20160310_150432_resized.jpg20160310_150443_resized_5.jpg

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  7. #45
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    Oh my, the power unit sure looks a lot better than it did a week ago!!
    Sure wish I lived near, I love helping getting it set up.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    I was thinking you could contact a wrecker company that have a HD crane on the back of the wrecker like this one. Heavy Towing & Heavy Wrecker Service College Station, TX | BDS Towing in College Station. And have them lift the column on after the base is inside the door. You could also put some long 6 x 6's under the bed and use steel rollers to help position the machine in the shop and then raise one end at a time and tetter totter the 6' x 6's out and using a saw sill to cut the 6x6's into shorter sections.

    Would cost a lot more if the shop caved in using the wood beam. Rich

    PS: Be sure to remember to tell the helpers rule 5
    I have moved some very large and awkward equipment with a tow truck. The ones that can tow an 18 wheeler can lift quite a bit.

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    Any chance you could stand it up outside and roll it in somehow? I know earlier you said it was 9ft tall and the door was 9ft tall but I'm not sure how exact the measurement on the column is. Maybe it could just squeeze under the door frame?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bodkin View Post
    Any chance you could stand it up outside and roll it in somehow? I know earlier you said it was 9ft tall and the door was 9ft tall but I'm not sure how exact the measurement on the column is. Maybe it could just squeeze under the door frame?
    I'll measure the exact heights after dinner but I think it will be close. IF it has some room the safest way would to use a fork lift to stand it upright outside then get the forks under it and chain it to the mast and drive it in the doorway. I'm not sure how large a 8000 lb capacity forklift is and if the mast would fit under the door header with the column lifted a few inches of the ground.. One of my accounts,I also build websites for small companies, is the rental place here in town so I've asked the owner for some information on the physical size of a 8000 lb fork.

    My original idea was to back the trailer inside the main shop and under my 10,000 capacity two post lift. Then lift the machine off the trailer, place it on the ground and then use the lift and my small tractor, with forks, to turn it upright. At first I was going to place the machine in the main shop, still can if needed, but it would be out of the way more in the machine room.

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  13. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by true temper View Post
    Richard, I don't think the toe truck will work, not enough head room. The colum is too tall, and by the time you get your rigging on it there will be no room for the boom.
    Seeing I have been rigging machines, driving fork lifts, running 50 ton overhead cranes for over 45 years and have worked with several dozen machine movers. Plus been at Steve's shop 2 times I would say I have a handle of things.

    If I was Steve I would have a pro help. He could call the wrecker service and have them come and take a look. They may have a few 3/4 x 4 x 8 sheet of steel they could use to skate the column in if the boom doesn't fit inside his OH door. I know Steve and he is a super mechanically inclined man with many talents, but I also know he is a busy man with a lot of work. If he hired a professional Machine Mover to help it would probably be a wash in time and money plus "safe" It would not hurt to make a few phone calls. A pro could bring in a compact forklift and 2 pro riggers and have it unloaded and assembled in a 1/2 day I would bet.
    http://www.ablemachinerymovers.com/ Rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    John do you have the charts or formulas to convert that to how much load the beam will carry with a 10' span?
    First, I am no engineer, just a well read machinist - so this is worth exactly what it cost you

    Second - you can do all this yourself looking in MHB in the Strength of Materials section in the page entitled Stresses and Deflections In Beams - see Case #2

    WL / 4Z is stress at center

    W is load in Lbs
    L is length in inches
    Z is section modulus I posted above

    So - 120 X 8000 = 960,000

    960,000 / (4 times 14.4) = 16,667 psi

    This is a little over half the yield strength of A36

    I'd say 8000 is too much for A36

    Bobnotthecat posted sometime back about BUCKLING and UNSUPPORTED COMPRESSION FLANGES. Buckling is the failure - way before yield - that kills folks. The top flange (compression) gives way and the beam instantly fails

    Bob gave this interesting little "formula" for seeing how your beam is compared to length

    Ld / bt = not to exceed 600

    L is length in inches (yours is 120)
    d is depth (yours is 8)
    t is thickness of flange (the charts say yours is .426" avg.)
    b is breadth of flange (yours is 4)

    Do all this and you will see your number is just under 600 - or you could say you would be safer if your number was 300

    (note if you SUPPORTED the compression flange with a .5" X 4" flat bar - thoroughly welded on - your number would drop to 250)

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    Take this for what it is worth. I am a professional engineer (15 years) who has been involved in many structural engineering projects in the heavy industrial field and who knows how to calculate the capacity of the "beam" in your shop. Without calculating, it is NOT up to the task. If it holds you will have gotten lucky, very lucky. Please don't tear down your roof. For fun I'll try tomorrow to have our seasoned structural engineer run this beam on his wood design software. That will produce a capacity that you could stand under but I am betting it will be under 2000 lbs based on experience. Secondly, the cal from software will be for a hanging load generally (directly under beam). If you have any side load during the tilting then the onset of buckling will probably occur sooner.

    I've been around lots of boiler makers lifting 10 tons plus. One area to watch for is if you end up tipping it up it will go over center at one point and if you are not rigged right you may lose control of the load. 7000 lbs swinging around is not part of the plan.

    I say this as a cautionary measure but on the other hand I encourage you to get it done. Just think it through completely and do not skip steps to save time.

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    Maybe out of the question costwise but a carry deck crane would be the ticket if you can get it inside laying down. As you tilt it up use blocking under it so the part has to climb up the blocking as the crane lifts it. In this way the crane operator has complete control of the load. Then crane lifts it a bit and you remove blocking and set it back down, but now vertical. Try any decent crane rental company and know your load weight and dimensions etc.

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    What a cool Machine Tool Road trip/ Acquisition thread!
    And the movie was great too.
    Hope it all works out, and we get to see the chip cutting sequel.


    I'd sure like to hear more about this! V V V V

    [QUOTEAs I was trying to live within my budget I decided to go ahead and pour the slab and place the machines without piers. I have a 25 ton hydraulic ram and power pack that is used to press precast cylinders into the earth, one after another until the point of refusal is reached and the column supports the weight of the slab above it. ][/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilcox View Post
    Maybe out of the question costwise but a carry deck crane would be the ticket if you can get it inside laying down. As you tilt it up use blocking under it so the part has to climb up the blocking as the crane lifts it. In this way the crane operator has complete control of the load. Then crane lifts it a bit and you remove blocking and set it back down, but now vertical. Try any decent crane rental company and know your load weight and dimensions etc.
    Steve we are pulling for you to make this happen and I know your very good at what you do. I will congratulate you if you can get the machine in the shop and the column bolted on. I know you love a challenge. My concern is somethings can get you into trouble. I have seen 3/4" steel cables break and machines fall, thank God the Rigger or anyone didn't get hurt. Your a excellent builder of homes and cabinets so why waste your valuable time making some sort of I-Beam A frame when you can hire a pro to either do the job or advise and help you. I bet John knows some excellent machinery movers or some retired ones who could advise you. I have said my piece. Good luck. Rich
    Last edited by Richard King; 03-11-2016 at 06:48 AM.

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    Richard, I think we are in agreement.
    Carry Deck Crane
    http://www.apecrane.com/assets/1/19/...r/DSC02663.jpg

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    Richard I was a Fireman and Paramedic for over 20 years, I've seen every kind of accident you can imagine. If we can't do it safely it will not be done! Thanks for your concern.

    The problem with any type of crane is it is pretty much limited to working outside of my 9' tall door or inside the main shop that has a 14' tall door. Yes it can safely lift and tilt the column but what will I do it after it is uprighted?

    I'm pretty sure a 8000 lb capacity forklift can safely lift the column and upright it in much the same way we loaded it onto the trailer. If I rotate the column and lower it onto cribbing I can then put the forks under the base and chain the column to the forklift to prevent it tipping as I move it into the space.

    A shooting boom forklift might be even better

    Another option..

    There is a wrecker company in Navasota that has a big rig wrecker.. I'll stop by and see what they would charge to pick up the column and set it inside the 14' high door. If I have to I could remove the wall above the man door and skate the base into place using a smaller forklift to stabilize it.. I have the forklift and a set of skates.. Problem is the forklift I have would not be able to lift the column off the skates so would have to figure out a way to overcome that..

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post

    I'd sure like to hear more about this! V V V V

    [QUOTEAs I was trying to live within my budget I decided to go ahead and pour the slab and place the machines without piers. I have a 25 ton hydraulic ram and power pack that is used to press precast cylinders into the earth, one after another until the point of refusal is reached and the column supports the weight of the slab above it. ]
    [/QUOTE]


    Commercial Foundation Leveling | New Orleans, LA


    This is common procedure around here. 3 months ago I had to drive 48 piers under a home that has been sinking for years. I usually use three different companies to do this work but all three said it could not be done to this home and no bid after seeing the conditions. So it was either let the home keep sinking or come up with a solution. I ended up buying the equipment, placing the piles and lifting the home myself.

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    Hose B....

    When we arrived on Sunday morning you and Jose had already positioned the forklift under the end of the bed. How did you get the forks under it and what size was that forklift?

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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    The problem with any type of crane is it is pretty much limited to working outside of my 9' tall door or inside the main shop that has a 14' tall door.
    Take a chunk of the roof off and drop the crane cable through the hole. Where I live I can hire a 20 tonne crane for a few hundred dollars on a 4 hour hire.

    Lot easier to repair a planned hole in the roof than the machine, or a roof that's been pulled down....

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    Hose B....

    When we arrived on Sunday morning you and Jose had already positioned the forklift under the end of the bed. How did you get the forks under it and what size was that forklift?
    If I remember right the bed was set on 4x6 skids, the forklift had sharp tapered forks, even if the plate was on the dirt it was no problem driving it in.
    I think the lift is a 6k, maybe Jose will chime in.


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