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  1. #581
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    Had a change of plans after I went back and saw that the 3/4" bolts were what we settled on.

    Just picked a box of 3/4" bolts to replace the 5/8" ones.

    And as a little extra insurance I picked up some epoxy to squirt into the cleaned holes before I drive the bolts in...

    Sort of a belt and suspenders solution

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    Had a change of plans after I went back and saw that the 3/4" bolts were what we settled on.

    Just picked a box of 3/4" bolts to replace the 5/8" ones.

    And as a little extra insurance I picked up some epoxy to squirt into the cleaned holes before I drive the bolts in...

    Sort of a belt and suspenders solution

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
    That should give you a bit more length of bolt into the concrete. You wouldn't want any of them to pull out.

    I had that happen to me once on a large Hor bore installation. The machine had about 20 rag bolts and we'd used the same mix for every hole. 3 of very fine granite chippings, 2 of building sand, 1 of cement.

    For some reason one of the rag bolts on a corner came loose. The mix hadn't gone off properly I think.

    That meant I had to jack the whole machine up, without disturbing the other rag bolts, until it was above the tops of the bolts. Skate the machine a couple of feet out of the way so I could dig out the faulty bolt.

    Then skate the machine back into place and very carefully Jack it back down again without damaging the other rag bolts. A very tricky job that took me quite a while.



    Regards Tyrone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    That should give you a bit more length of bolt into the concrete. You wouldn't want any of them to pull out.

    I had that happen to me once on a large Hor bore installation. The machine had about 20 rag bolts and we'd used the same mix for every hole. 3 of very fine granite chippings, 2 of building sand, 1 of cement.

    For some reason one of the rag bolts on a corner came loose. The mix hadn't gone off properly I think.

    That meant I had to jack the whole machine up, without disturbing the other rag bolts, until it was above the tops of the bolts. Skate the machine a couple of feet out of the way so I could dig out the faulty bolt.

    Then skate the machine back into place and very carefully Jack it back down again without damaging the other rag bolts. A very tricky job that took me quite a while.



    Regards Tyrone
    That would be a huge PITA!

    I'm having to work on websites tonight but I plan on having the holes all drilled and bushings finished tomorrow night...

  5. #584
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    I heard a story about a larger SNK bridge mill that was being installed. A foundation plan was sent out that called for anchor bolts on 16" centers. I believe they used studs welded to a steel frame poured in the middle of the concrete foundation.

    When the machine showed up the holes for the anchor bolts were on 18" centers...

    So now you have riggers and factory guys there ready to assemble this beast and they have to call in a crew to core drill the foundation down to the steel frame below and weld on new studs and then pour some new concrete around them.

    I don't know what that cost or who paid for it...

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  7. #585
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    I had a similar thing happen to me with a long centre lathe. The foundation had been prepared previously from the manufacturers foundation plan.

    We used the old method of pyramid shaped holes in the ground ready for rag bolts.

    When the lathe finally arrived I skated the machine alongside the foundation. The headstock and tailstock rag bolt holes lined up perfectly but the centre pedestal holes were about 12" out !

    Bottom line was the manufacturer had sent the wrong foundation drawing. I had to prepare two more pyramid holes and fill in the existing holes that were no longer needed. No big deal but it delayed the job and the owners were not best pleased.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    but the centre pedestal holes were about 12" out !

    Bottom line was the manufacturer had sent the wrong foundation drawing.
    LOL! Old Day Job the captive company Architect made bespoke drawings for a two-story add-on to our retail store & HQ. Had all the right certs. Experienced enough. No one to blame but himself if anything went pear-shaped..

    Inclined conveyer belt, 15 foot ceiling, 2d to 3d story warehouse areas missed the prepared opening by over four FEET.

    And then... same day, as a byproduct, we found out the expensive way that none of the conduit and installed electrical boxes matched the reflected ceiling lighting plan for the fixtures they were meant to serve.

    Expat Danish master carpenter/cabinetmaker who built everything ELSE, from office partitions to fine woods display counters, remarked:

    "That's G- D- ed George A- !"

    "Can't even use a piece of f-ing TRACING PAPER!"



    Bill

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    Default Progress report

    Only had Sunday to work on the beast this weekend so not a lot of progress...

    All the bolts are epoxied in and I have leveled 1/2 of the bed. Need to move the bed to the other side and level the rest of the ways. By using the push/pull system of bolts it is easy to get the twist out of the ways, not much twist but what there is was easy to remove.

    Before the bed can move to the other side I need to reconnect all the table control linkages. I ended up removing them to drill two bolt holes in the concrete. Just a matter of about an hour to reinstall them.

    The machine base has 10 leveling location and the column has just two. Of course they have placed the hydraulic feed motor directly over one of the hole locations and without major disassembly, maybe 5 hours of work, there is no way to get a drill in there. Also have the same problem at the table way oil filter. With no access I decided to just drill a hole and place a bolt outside the base of the machine, about 2 inches away. I'm going to weld up a bracket that will bolt to the floor, extend up over the flange of the table base and go two inches in over the flange. I will then tap the upper plate so I can screw in a bolt that will force the base down as I screw it in.. I can build this strong enough to keep from flexing and I think it will function well enough...

    While all the tools were out I also drilled three holes into the concrete on each end of the planer base. I'm going to make a fixture that will bolt to the concrete, using those bolts and provide extra support to prevent the base from moving while the table reverses direction.

    Just a few things left to do before first chips.. Finish the leveling, align the cross arm to the table and install the chip guard over the rear oil collection galleries.. I found a tool bit that just needs a little work to make it suitable for the machine.. Now just have to figure out what material is going to be sacrificed

    Also found a great resource for using the planer.. It's really old information but then I'm using a really old planer

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    I'd be sure that the provision for bolting down the column is good. I would anticipate having to pull the column over into an upright position bearing in mind the weight of the cross rail pulling in the other direction.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    I understand the difficulty reaching some hole locations.
    Do you think the time, head scratching, and effort to make up special brackets will be less than that involved to drill them straight through like the rest? In either case when done will you be happy with that end result or wish you'd done it the other way?

    Grigg

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    We have done a few machines in a similar way of anchoring and then epoxy. I think the worst I had to deal with is a new Mazak 6800 and tool hive. There were like 20 1" diameter holes that needed to be drilled thru old cured concrete. 12" deep and the guy handed me a 1" bit for the roto hammer and told me to make sure the holes are as straight as possible. I got the job done even though I disagreed and they needed to hire someone with a proper core drill. Talk about 10 hours of hammering your hands to a level of numbness. I kept them straight as I possibly can thankfully as I installed anchors that stuck up out of the ground a good 12" that the mill had to be lowered thru.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grigg View Post
    I understand the difficulty reaching some hole locations.
    Do you think the time, head scratching, and effort to make up special brackets will be less than that involved to drill them straight through like the rest? In either case when done will you be happy with that end result or wish you'd done it the other way?

    Grigg
    That's one of the reasons why we used the inverted pyramid shaped holes in the ground method. You could drop the rag bolts down the holes, roll the machine over the rag bolt holes,Rough level the machine, pull the rag bolts up through the holes in the machine base, grout the rag bolts in and a few days later you were good to go vis-a-vis final levelling up.

    It's a slower way but it's idiot proof.

    Regards Tyrone.

  15. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grigg View Post
    I understand the difficulty reaching some hole locations.
    Do you think the time, head scratching, and effort to make up special brackets will be less than that involved to drill them straight through like the rest? In either case when done will you be happy with that end result or wish you'd done it the other way?

    Grigg
    I think I will save enough time to make it worthwhile. I also think the brackets will be up to the task.... IF not I can always tear everything off and drill the holes...

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    A few pictures... First up the inaccessible hole under the hydraulic motor. The new bolt is just outside the flange of the table.

    20170123_183046.jpg

    This is the operator end of the bed.. Installed 3 bolts here and will make a plate to act as a stop. One hole is offset because I hit the rebar and had to move over..

    20170123_183027.jpg

    Using the levels for fine leveling. Half way done now.

    20170123_183108.jpg

    This is a picture of the big vice that Jose included. I started painting it and working it over..

    20170123_183001.jpg

    I have never used a vice like this and looking it over has me a little puzzled. The bottom of the vice has a long pin that looks like it fits into a hole in the base. The bottom of the vice also has 4 threaded holes and I think the base is attached to the bottom of the vice with cap screws. In the box of loose parts there is one bolt that fits the threads in the vice but the head will not fit into the counterbore in the base plate.. I guess I'll purchase some bolts and hope they will fit. If not I think the best way forward is to rebore the holes to fit the new cap heads..

    I have not taken the time to wire brush the base yet and I haven't see any graduations so far, maybe they will show up after the cleaning. I also noted two keyways, with a single threaded hole, located in what looks like a separate plate, in the base. Just guessing at their purpose but they may be for a metal "tab" to keep the plate in the square base. Problem is from the front side of the base it looks like a solid one piece base.. Not wanting to tear up anything at this point so I decided it would be best to ask for help

    How is a vice of this size and construction suppose to operate?

  17. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    ....
    This is a picture of the big vice that Jose included. I started painting it and working it over..

    20170123_183001.jpg

    I have never used a vice like this and looking it over has me a little puzzled. The bottom of the vice has a long pin that looks like it fits into a hole in the base. The bottom of the vice also has 4 threaded holes and I think the base is attached to the bottom of the vice with cap screws. In the box of loose parts there is one bolt that fits the threads in the vice but the head will not fit into the counterbore in the base plate.. I guess I'll purchase some bolts and hope they will fit. If not I think the best way forward is to rebore the holes to fit the new cap heads..

    I have not taken the time to wire brush the base yet and I haven't see any graduations so far, maybe they will show up after the cleaning. I also noted two keyways, with a single threaded hole, located in what looks like a separate plate, in the base. Just guessing at their purpose but they may be for a metal "tab" to keep the plate in the square base. Problem is from the front side of the base it looks like a solid one piece base.. Not wanting to tear up anything at this point so I decided it would be best to ask for help

    How is a vice of this size and construction suppose to operate?
    If all the pieces of the vise are there, and the piece on the top left of the picture mates with the bottom of the vise, I'm rather baffled: Why having a circular mating surface when you're going to lock the two pieces together with a pin and four screws? I would have expected a base with a circular T-slot to allow the top to rotate. I have no problems with the presence of the pin, if it's removable (i.e. it is used to lock the vise parallel or perpendicular with the bed-even better if there were two holes 90° apart).

    Paolo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    If all the pieces of the vise are there, and the piece on the top left of the picture mates with the bottom of the vise, I'm rather baffled: Why having a circular mating surface when you're going to lock the two pieces together with a pin and four screws? I would have expected a base with a circular T-slot to allow the top to rotate. I have no problems with the presence of the pin, if it's removable (i.e. it is used to lock the vise parallel or perpendicular with the bed-even better if there were two holes 90° apart).

    Paolo
    All the pieces are here, I think. The only other piece I have is the other have of the movable jaw.

    I just went out and turned the base back over... The base is in fact two piece, a circular piece fitted inside the square base.

    The two keyways, with screw holes, are milled into the square part of the base and what I thought were matching keyways in the circular part were just rusty areas. With no matching keyways in the circular piece I have no idea what they are for...

    I think the pin in the vice piece is just a locating pin and will rotate with the circular piece in the base. I "think" this vice is able to rotate and the circular piece in the base stands just a little proud of the square part. Only way I can see to lock the vise in position is by tightening the 4 bolts that hold the base to the machine table via T nuts.. With the circular part proud of the square part the bolts "lock" the base into position.

    IF that is the case I wonder how well this system will resist rotating under a heavy cut.....

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    I think you'll find that you won't use a vice very often on a planing machine. Most set ups are table set ups.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    All of my shaper and planer vises are this style. You will find that when the four bolts are snugged up the vise is very solid. Unlike a mill vise with a rotory base this style eliminates the extra rational axis by locking the vise base right to the table. It also keeps the jaws closer to the table, doesn't add the height a milling vise rotory base does. If you have any questions, ask away and I'll do my best to answer.

    Hello, my name is Brian and I'm a toolaholic

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    If you get the chance I'd like to see a few pictures of how the pieces of the square base are made.

  23. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    A few pictures... First up the inaccessible hole under the hydraulic motor. The new bolt is just outside the flange of the table.
    I have installed a few pieces of older equipment, and most machine tools of your caliber require a layout beforehand, or better yet, sit it, mark it and move it, then drill. I have experimented last year with this for 3 installs of a similar machine to see which was the easiest. I tried a poured in captive nut (per Mattison's foundation plan), marked-then move machine and drill, clean and epoxy, and finally, coredrill and pour grout. I would say the last is the easiest and for sure. Drilled one core next to the but an inch deep to use to pour the grout in. Move the machine in, once in position put the rod in and let it hang while on skates, then set it down over the hole and pour it full. In your current situation, you could put it on skates and move it around enough to get at it and then it would be anchored.
    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdavi581 View Post
    I have installed a few pieces of older equipment, and most machine tools of your caliber require a layout beforehand, or better yet, sit it, mark it and move it, then drill. I have experimented last year with this for 3 installs of a similar machine to see which was the easiest. I tried a poured in captive nut (per Mattison's foundation plan), marked-then move machine and drill, clean and epoxy, and finally, coredrill and pour grout. I would say the last is the easiest and for sure. Drilled one core next to the but an inch deep to use to pour the grout in. Move the machine in, once in position put the rod in and let it hang while on skates, then set it down over the hole and pour it full. In your current situation, you could put it on skates and move it around enough to get at it and then it would be anchored.
    Joe
    Hi Joe, just one or two additions. When you are grouting the bolts on a big machine just having it on skates is a bit risky if your floor is out of level. You need to be sure you are pretty level before hand. When you're filling up the holes with grout I always used a small electric vibratory poker to settle the grout, you'd be amazed how much the grout will settle.

    Regards Tyrone.

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