2AM tool holders and collets: who wants them?
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  1. #1
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    Default 2AM tool holders and collets: who wants them?

    New/Old-Iron day: Ames Triplex multi-machine
    I recently acquired an Ames Triplex multipurpose machine with a lack of tool holders. It uses the 2AM spindle system (looks like a long 3C). I'm planing on building my own, but want to see what kind of interest there is if I were to do a short run of assorted holders. I'm getting a print drawn up based off of my own spindle measurements and standard tool holder specs (such as are found in Machinery's Handbook). I plan to us 4140 for everything but the emergency collets, but will only be hardening specific tool holders. All tools will include the slot for locating inside the spindle. The collets will take the longest to do as I do not yet have a way to cylindrical grind them. Likewise, I'll only be making round collets as I have no experience or means to make precision square or hex bores.

    Eventually, I want to make the following:

    -1/2", 3/4", and 7/8" horizontal arbors. Soft 4140. Will utilize driving slot on spindle face and tail stock end will use a simple center. Right hand nut included. Length to be determined, but will make as long as the Triplex allows. If there are other applications for different lengths, I can make them.
    - J1 and J2 taper drill chuck arbors. Soft 4140.
    - 3/8-24 threaded drill chuck arbors. Soft 4140.
    - Weldon style end mill holders in 1/8" sizes up to 1/2". 4140 hardened to 50-60 RC. Plan to cylindrical grind taper and ID after heat treating.
    - Emergency soft collets. Soft CRS (1018 or similar). 1/8" pilot with boring pin holes, will thread ID of collet to allow for stops.
    - Round hardened collets in sizes up to 1/2", 4140 hardened to 50-60 RC. Will thread ID of collet to allow for stops. Plan to cylindrical grind taper and ID after heat treating.
    - Dead center, to be used for between-centers lathe work. 4140 hardened to 50-60 RC.
    - Tool holder "blanks" (to be finished as fly-cutters, special tool holders, etc.). Will leave a couple inches of rough stock on end.


    So questions:
    Who'd be interested in what?
    Should I make sets of hard collets, or sell them individually?
    Will 1/8" or 1/16" increments be sufficient for a collet set, and would there be any interest in 1/32" sizes?
    I'd appreciate as much info as you can share about your spindle so that I can check my dimensions and ensure they're correct.

    Once I see what kind of demand there is, I'll see what I can make/sell them for and what kind of lead-time to expect.

    If anyone wants to go in with me doing the final grinding on the collets and end-mill holders, that will save me some trouble.

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    I'm interested in everything otherwise I'll be making them myself, someday, probably...

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    Greetings,

    I don't have a Triplex...yet. But I'm hunting for one, and sooner or later, the gods-of-the-scrounge will deliver.
    I've got 5 or 6 Ames lathes, and a mill, so the Triplex is all I have left to complete the set. Anybody have one looking for a good home?

    So yeah, I'd be interested, depending on price, but definitely interested.

    On a related note: I've got a couple of the Ames milling attachments for the lathes. I keep meaning to tool up the VMC to whomp up some new dividing plates for them. If I set her up to do the four or five plates I'm likely to need, it's just as simple to keep rolling and make more. If I do that, would anybody be interested? (And have any requests for divisions? 60, 64 and 72 are already planned.)

    I've also contemplated making more master threads for the threading attachment. Any interest?

    Regards,
    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alberic View Post
    Greetings,

    I don't have a Triplex...yet. But I'm hunting for one, and sooner or later, the gods-of-the-scrounge will deliver.
    I've got 5 or 6 Ames lathes, and a mill, so the Triplex is all I have left to complete the set. Anybody have one looking for a good home?

    So yeah, I'd be interested, depending on price, but definitely interested.

    On a related note: I've got a couple of the Ames milling attachments for the lathes. I keep meaning to tool up the VMC to whomp up some new dividing plates for them. If I set her up to do the four or five plates I'm likely to need, it's just as simple to keep rolling and make more. If I do that, would anybody be interested? (And have any requests for divisions? 60, 64 and 72 are already planned.)

    I've also contemplated making more master threads for the threading attachment. Any interest?

    Regards,
    Brian
    Do any of your machines use the 2AM collets? I've seen more info/availability of the 1AM and 3AM collets, but next-to-nothing on the 2AM. Even my 1946 Machinery's Handbook skips over them and only gives data on the 1AM and 3AM

    Mine doesn't have any of the threading attachment pieces. Not sure how cross-compatible it was between their models but I might be interested. Do you have any pics of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alberic View Post
    Greetings,
    I've also contemplated making more master threads for the threading attachment. Any interest?
    Probably, but I'd need to make the rest of the threading attachment first. From the one photo I've seen of a Triplex with the attachment it looks like all the other Ames ones.

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    I can't say that I have any need for 2AM collets, but as the owner of a Gorton milling machine with the fabled (infamous?) Gorton proprietary spindle taper, I would be highly interested in as much detail you would care to share in terms of the collet manufacturing process, as this is something I am looking at doing for my application as well.

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    Greetings all,

    As someone who's ended up with more Ames gear than any one person really should have, I can say a few things.
    A) the 2A collets were unique to the Triplex. The lathes, mills and attachments all used either 1A or 3A.
    B) I didn't realize the triplex even *had* a thread attachment. So no, I've got nothing.
    Don't even have any sales literature for the Triplex. It was always a pretty rare beast.
    I do have a standard Ames threader. It's currently in storage, but I should have access to it again in a couple of months to take pictures. It's nothing particularly weird. The Hardinge Cataracts had a similar rig. Theirs was a bit fancier as I recall.

    At the moment, my main business is growing like a weed, and the CNC's are all tied up solid, so it'll be a *while* before I get any time to fuss with Ames parts. When I do, I'll definitely post something to the Antique iron forum so people can let me know what they want.

    Regards,
    Brian

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    OK, I just went and looked at Tony's site for the Triplex. It's been a while.
    Looking at how the triplex did its threader versus how the mainline Ames machines did it, I don't think they shared any parts except *perhaps* the master threads. The Triplex's main headstock axle can shift forward in Z, like a modern sliding head Swiss. Which makes it really easy to drive the whole thing forward to cut a thread.
    The mainline Ames lathes can't. So they need a way to drag a cutter around to cut the thread, which ended up being a bit more complicated than what the Triplex did. So I don't think pictures of my rig will help.
    (I'll gladly share, but other than the thread form of the masters (they're buttress threads) I don't think you'll get much from them.)

    Regards,
    Brian

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    I'm trying to find the taper/angle for the ID of the spindle nose. I can't find any documents that have more than just collet threads and linear dimensions. So I'm probably going to need to pull the spec. off of my own spindle and then do a little trial and error with some dykem. My only concern doing it this way is not knowing if or how worn my taper might be or what kind of tolerance the angle may have (IE: if mine fits best with a 32 degree taper, but it was supposed to be 30 degrees, I'd rather make them 30-31 degree's to be safe)

    I'm also still in need of the spindle-head binding plate that my machine is missing. I'll need to sort that out before I can make any chips.

    I have a bundle of 1" round 4140 drops that will work for my first batch. I'm going to cut it all into tool-holder blanks once I've confirmed my tool holder dimensions. and then finish those into other holders. Pics to come!

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    kddqjumn.jpg
    This milling arbor is my sole original 2AM piece to reference right now. The drill chuck is my first rough-cut piece I made to proof some dimensions. I'm finding the spindle taper to be 11 degrees. the draw-in thread is an odd .622-24 thread, which is a little tricky to do since both my draw-tube and mill arbor are worn and the thread is an odd-ball so there's not much out there to reference for major/minor diameters. I'd really like to make a go-nogo gauge to help single-pointing the threads. If any of you wouldn't mind checking your existing tooling for those 2 features, I'd appreciate it, otherwise I'm going to run with my current specs.

    I started making the 3/8-24 drill arbor because I have several spare chucks of that size, and I figured that they would be good for general purpose low to medium tolerance drilling. I'm going to make a few more and I'm also going to make a couple hardened centers next to see how well they heat treat.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails kddqjumn.jpeg  

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    What is the relationship between these things and the 2A collett used by 10 and 13" south bend lathes of WW2 vintage.I have a bunch of those, and they are very versatile collets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k3vyl View Post
    What is the relationship between these things and the 2A collett used by 10 and 13" south bend lathes of WW2 vintage.I have a bunch of those, and they are very versatile collets.
    I've never used them, but it looks like 2A collets are different dimensions.

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    The 2A used by SBL has a .850-20 thread and the OAL is 3 1/4 ".The things look like a 3C on steroids


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