3/4 " Scale Hudson Locomotive built by Victor Shattock. - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Learn something new everyday. Don't feel bad, guys. I don't even like myself.

    Bring on more trains!!!! Videos of them puffing away????

  2. #62
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    Joe raises some excellent points on the Scotch Marine boilers, Thinking back to my teenage years & A.F. Craigs boiler shop reminds me of an old craftsman who worked in that department, Willie Browning, He was the boilershop fitter, and I was alwaysabsolutely awe inspired as to old Wull, WEll he was old to me as a teenager I think he might only have been in his mid fifties, The mountings for the water guages were heavy steel tubes which came out from the boilers and had round flanges which this old fitter using a combination of filing and hand scraping had to get them fair and parallel, and with a surface finish of about ten points per square inch , His work had to pass the final inspection by the clients inspector, Frequently Lloyds or the continental insurance houses, Other fitting work around the boilers were his domain also
    When I worked for that firm they were building some boilers for a Swedish shipbuilding concern, The Elsinore Shipbuilding Company, I told my dad about these boilers and his ears pricked up, At that time he was sitting up in bed recovering from a heart attack, which finished his working career, for any heavy work, He told me of his life in Australia not long after he came home from the first world war, When he came back home to "A land fit for Heroes", he said only a hero could have lived in Britain at that period with the great depression hitting the world , hot on the heels of the great war
    Well he obviously had another of his bright ideas, He was not alone with that one , As both himself and some of the other young men in our town decided to emigrate down under, When they arrived in australia they found life was not much better,and one of the few occupations he could manage at Sydney, after trudging all over a fair bit of Australia , was as a boiler scaler, To say he had a heavy hot dirty unpleasant job was a total understatement, That was his words to me that evening, He was on one week scaling the inside of two boilers , Again Scotch boilers, and he had a horrible feeling of unease inside the shells of them, his Scottish intuition was not far out, As the watch engineeron the particular ship said " Keep your wits about you son" It would seem two boiler scalers had been scalded to death inside the shell of this boiler I imegiately thought stuff that for a game of soldiers, I will never be a boiler scaler !
    however he was sent to work on an almost new Swedish ship which was built by The Elsinore Shipbuilding Co , He said she was was possibly only two years old An oil burner fitted with Wallsend Howden oilburning systems
    The chief engineer seeing he was a handy soul and not averse to getting on with the job said he would sign him on as a fireman, Which he did, He seemed to have been a pretty decent soul , Dad had a crash course in oil firing marine auxiliaries and heaven knows what else was needed to know +a crash course in basic Swedish language
    The chifs idea was to bring him home drop him off at Leith on the way back to Sweden and pick him up on the way back to australia. Fine except if anythiing could go wrong it would go wrong, As we say Lucky White Heather Word came down from the Swedish legation that a distressed Swedish sailor was requiring a posting home, In spite of the Chiefs plea , He was paid off.
    Next along came a telegraph from home his mother was ill and get back, So he joined the coal burning ship Horarata, A Liverpool Irish stokehold crew, He always said not a patch on the Swedes , In fact Scum was a better catagory , He could defend himself pretty ably, so a few busted noses all round cooled their behavior.
    In those balmy days of the 1950-65 ish period at the entrance to The Glasgow docks, was various offices just inside the dock entrances there were at least a couple of firms of Stevedores, I was not until much llater to learn what an important and skilled man a foreman stevedore was,How things have become totally deskilled with the container era, Another firm I remember rejoiced in the title of The Glasgow Boiler Scaling and rivetting Company

    One day over on the other side of the river The Finnieston district, I wqas having a stroll around the side of the quey, One could go down and get close to the ships tied up When I spied old number 24 Clyde Navigation Trust mud hopper vessel , she had a bit of smoke coming from her funnel & she was still about the last hand fired of her fleet, up onto the deck for a breather came her fireman , So I ended up talking to the man & managed to get a sneak preview of his boiler and engine room Two triple expansion engines and one big three furnace Scotch boiler, Well the reason I mention this ditty which has taken me far of the thread was the words the man uttered "I am only her fireman" I was taken aback, And even for my age , for once was on the ball, I said " Stop right there You are not only a Fireman , Never forget you are a highly skilled and important member of your team" He said , I wish my relations had heard you saying that" totally undervalued in society I wonder how many folks would have had his skill in managing his fires, and his stick ability and stamina on a hot day.
    further to that during menouvers his job was in the engine room manning one of the engines along with the chief, Only a Fireman?

    some years ago I was at another stupid talk, and a member of the brains trusy was saying how the high skills of the guys who worked the Kearns horizontal borers was top potato, and the structural guys not very good, I thought well well , well, When one sees the skill of the angle smiths every bit as skilled and the old machinist in the old traditional marine engineering firms such as Rankin & Blackmore , and McKie & Baxters in Paisley operating their old fashioned Harvey Horizontal Drilling boring & tapping machines , Absolutely no micrometer dials only pure skill
    Maybe I will get back to talking about boilers and stop bitching and whining , Joe talks about the corrugated furnace tubes, well Craigs made these things in the dozens, both for their own boilers and other folks They wer formed in cast iron dies in a massive vertical pressm, The interesting point about them was they were straight towards the front at the firesection were smooth, Then they were corrugated, and went from totally circular to an egg shapem ending up on the front and back section with a flange for rivetting to the front boiler shell, and also to the front plate of the combustion chamber As the these boiler firedrums were manufactured from a single plate they were longitudinally electric welded, The most imp[ortant man was the xray technician and the metallurgist
    Another thing which springs to mind was the pressure testing of these huge boilers, they ere filled up with fresh cold pure water from a depp well which was across the road , down the tunnel in towards the engine works, The pressure was forced up by a really clever little compressed air vertical piston pump which seened to me to have a lot of aluminium about it Craigs had a batch of these handy things all over the works, They were made by a firm in the Manchester are called Charles S Madan They were called Air Hydro Pumps. A man could lift them up and carry them no problem, and they worked from the works air line by a flexible hose connection They could be adjusted by turning a knob to any pressure desired

  3. #63
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    This has been a wonderful learning experience reading through so many thoughts and memories. I do believe this great discussion has raised more questions than answers at least in my mind. One of the things I have learned in life is memory can be a hard task master for people who think in generalities such as myself.

    I am VERY grateful to all of you who have contributed so much to this interesting thread. It just goes to show you how deeply ingrained into our minds and hearts the STEAM locomotive has become. Even younger people are filled with awe at their seething presence..like a modern day Dragon fitted with Rods and Motion. It has been so wonderful reading the posts of men who intimately know and knew these engines which yet cause one to pause and reflect.

    I mentioned my "generalized" memory. I take after my Mother who always remember the main "Gist" of a conversation..not necessarily the exact detail. Dad was like Joe Michaels. Dad could remember what he had for breakfast the first day of kindergarten. My conversation with Keith who has contributed much to this thread caused me to dig through my old stacks of paperwork I had kept. I kept my notes from speaking to Ken Shattock. I knew someday I would need them. I found them. This conversation occurred in 2012.

    I do not wish to mention the name of the person at this point as his Widow may still be alive. You can PM me if you want this information. However this MAN was a Motor Cycle Cop in 1936. Later in life he and his wife owned a PRINTING company in Oakland. Here is where my memory failed..or otherwise. I said this Man lived in Oakland, Ca. Ken said this person lived in Visalia, Ca. Ken also said this man was a collector of this sort of thing. I cannot explain Paul Schwitzer saying he obtained this Hudson from Oakland.

    At this point it is enough to know a very skillful person who knew full size locomotive practice intimately built this Hudson. Saying all this I do believe Keith has properly identified the MODEL or ORIGINS of this particular design. I really appreciate Keith taking the time to add to this thread. Obviously it is modeled around plans drawn by Martin S.Lewis who originated the Company LITTLE ENGINES out of Lomita Ca. This company sold plans, Castings and sundries for model steam locomotive building for many years. It exists yet selling larger gauge Models.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_4833.jpg   100_4834.jpg   100_4835.jpg   100_4836.jpg   100_4837.jpg  


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  5. #64
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    I measured a few of the dimensions Keith sent on his General arrangement drawing and except for minor changes they match. Also the overall general design appears to match the drawing especially in regards to the wheels and motion work..the motion brackets and valve gear. I cleaned some the of the parts with Scotchbrite hoping to achieve better detail.Most of that Gunk you see is dust and dried oil and cleans off easily enough.

    The pictures in the last post show the locomotive "Up Side" down. I wanted to do a comparison of building techniques on the bogies. Keith's print shows what appear to be a casting for the side frames of the trailing wheels. However on this particular model this entire Bogie is built up with various angles, channel and other bits and pieces. The beading around the edges of the outside plates appear to be iron wire which appear brazed or soldered to keep it in place.

    I think the construction of this bogie is incredible.. all fabricated and built up using common materials. This is the construction of the Trailing Bogie.

    Next post shows the TENDER Bogies which are built using the same fabrication technique.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_4845.jpg   100_4848.jpg   100_4850.jpg   100_4844.jpg   100_4849.jpg  


  6. #65
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    The Tender bogies are fabricated in the same manner as the trailing Bogie. This Tender has the Vanderbilt style Bogie. The only castings on this tender are the Coupler pockets. Everything else is fabricated from rounds and flats..channels and plate. It is all steel construction.

    Obviously the same person built the Tender and the Trailing wheels of the Locomotive. I wonder if this is one of the Tender's built by Victor Shattock " Mated" to this locomotive...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_4841.jpg   100_4840.jpg   100_4838.jpg   100_4839.jpg   100_4842.jpg  


  7. #66
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    Now the LEADING Truck on the Hudson IS a bronze casting and being compared to the others is very simple indeed. You cannot make it out in these pics but the wheel axles have no bearings. They simply ride in a rectangular slot..up and down have no separate bearing. A very simple bogie compared to the others. This bogie seems correct to the Martin S. Lewis design.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_4843.jpg   100_4846.jpg   100_4847.jpg   100_4851.jpg  

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  9. #67
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    So..based on these differences a question arises in my mind. I almost think the Tender is a Shattock built unit along with the Trailing bogie of the Locomotive. This MAY be where the confusion arises..maybe TWO different builders or maybe not. Keith doesn't think the Hudson is a Shattock because it most definitely is a Martin S. Lewis Chassis and Boiler.

    But in my mind I can see where Lewis and Shattock were contemporaries in their field. Perhaps they collaborated on this design or maybe not. We'll probably never know the real story but there IS a story in these " Words and Music" as Curly Lawrence use to say

    Now Joe..pics for you, Mac and Christy. I removed the Smoke Box from the boiler to see how the front Tube plate is fitted. It appears to be a 1/4" slug of steel welded in. The tubes do not appear to be rolled or"drifted" in place yet. Also there is a large open hole directly above the tubes probably being where the regulator flange was going to be fitted. Expert opinions and thoughts are VERY welcomed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_4853.jpg   100_4855.jpg   100_4852.jpg   100_4861.jpg   100_4856.jpg  


  10. #68
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    Here are the remainder of the Boiler pics.

    When this locomotive is assembled it almost seems it should be a 1" Scale rather than a 3/4" Scale Hudson. These Hudson's were huge!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_4858.jpg   100_4857.jpg   100_4859.jpg   100_4860.jpg   100_4862.jpg  


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  12. #69
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    Mac..one of the most interesting stories I have ever read. Hard life back in them days. People earned every dollar by the sweat of their brows and knowledge. Isn't it amazing how now..people can graduate with an engineering degree and not even know the difference between AC and DC voltage?

    One of these guys at work ( I'm a dedicated Parts Man to a John Deere Service Dept ) caused me to have a little fun. I said Steve..you need an AC or DC battery? Huh? Yea..you know, alternating current or direct current ? Oh..Let me go double check. He came back later and said there's only one part number for the battery and to give him that. He eventually caught on

    Point is..that knowledge and skill Mac speaks of..mostly all gone. To mold those corrugated tubes in one go in one die..amazing operation that took tremendous skill. Just think of the heat treat operation that was required. I wonder if they were pressed while red hot ?

    Sorry Joe..had to laugh at your comment regarding how hard these corrugated fire boxes were on the knees I could only imagine having bad knees and bone spurs how painful this felt. Also what you wrote about those "tiny spaces" and small holes a guy had to climb through and work in. VERY hard work both physically and mentally taking a great toll on body and hearing.

    Amazing to read about these boilers and the skill it took to make them..the machinery and technique with design orchestrated in terms of life and blood. Thank you for these insights and memory. These things NEED to be remembered.

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