4 Flat Belt Machines Kijiji ad

Hello all,

I came accross this ad the other day and will attempt to post the link to the ad to see if there is any interest and if anyone can come up with any ideas of manufacturer's names. I am at least a couple of hours from the seller and have no affiliation to the ad nor the seller.

It looks like there is a 7' lathe, a drill press, a grinder with a table and what looks like a milling machine that has been converted to a surface grinder. I am fairly new to metalworking machinery and can't tell you much more. The pictures will speak for themselves.

Here it goes...

Vintage Machining Tools (1920's) - New Brunswick Collectibles For Sale - Kijiji New Brunswick Canada.

Brian

The "surface grinder/mill" is scrap, but the rest is interesting, especially the grinder with the big 24" wheel perpendicular to the table. I am very sure that is a grinder for sharpening woodworking planer and jointer blades or shear blades. If that one were closer, I'd be on my way to pick it up right now.

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your input. I thought that the milling machine/surface grinder looked like a "wreck".... any ideas on the manufacturers ?

Brian

I believe that the grinder was for sharpenining blades that would cut chilled rolls

Hello Hope,

I talked to the owner today and he tells me that the big grinder was used to sharpen blades for a stone quarry nearby. I have no idea just how these blades were used, but I plan on taking a drive out there tomorrow to have a closer look and will take some better pics. I'll be back as soon as I can with an update.

Best regards...

Brian

Hi Brian ,
I think this grinder Vintage Machining Tools (1920's) was probably built for grinding the slotted knives for the old style wood planers and wood chippers but could also have been used for other things.
Maybe you will find a manufacturers name some where on it somewhere.
I may have seen something similar in an old wood working shop or at a machinery dealer some where but it isn’t one that I recognize .
There were a number of wood working machinery makers in south eastern Quebec like Poitras and Cote’ that may have made something like this but its been a while since I had much to do with them .
It would not surprise me if that was the case.
While it might be possible to do the thin 1/8” thick x 1” wide H.S.S. jointer and planer knives on one of these you would have to grind a lot of knives to recover even a minimal purchase and set up cost compared with having knives ground on a modern grinder.
The modern grinders are capable of making a much better job on these especially with C.B.N wheels if they are set up and operated properly .

The old lathe looks like it might be of the same vintage as your Bertram.
I don’t recognize what kind it is from behind.
You might want to take a long a couple of your change gears to see if they are the same pitch so if that lathe goes for scrap you might be luckyenough to find some to replace some of the ones you have with broken teeth .
You might also see what other parts like the chuck , tool post , tailstock, cross feed dial ,threading dial ( if any ) , etc. might be adaptable to fit your machine.

Regards,
Jim

"While it might be possible to do the thin 1/8” thick x 1” wide H.S.S. jointer and planer knives on one of these you would have to grind a lot of knives to recover even a minimal purchase and set up cost compared with having knives ground on a modern grinder.
The modern grinders are capable of making a much better job on these especially with C.B.N wheels if they are set up and operated properly ."

Unless you have a friend who has a 24" Oliver planer and matching jointer who uses the piss out of them building custom cabinets and furniture. If this machine was $1000 he'd pay for it in a couple of months by sharpening his own blades. I'd dare say those blades are far in excess of the flimsy little things they put on those Ryobi's and similar. I tried to sharpen a set of those Ryobi blades ONCE on my T&C grinder. Like trying to sharpen a live snake the way they crawled around.

There are some amazing sharpening machines out there for wood working equipment- the Marunaka is sweet- it is used to get a razor sharp edge (like you would get by hand stoning) on fixed knife planer blades. A fixed knife planer is exactly the same principle as a hand plane, but fed with a conveyer belt like a wide belt sander.

Not quite the machine in the add but getting close
Illustrated descriptive catalogue patent labor-saving wood-working machinery
Scroll down for the description
Source book.
Illustrated descriptive catalogue patent labor-saving wood-working machinery (1910)
Illustrated descriptive catalogue patent labor-saving wood-working machinery : Defiance Machine Works, Defiance, Ohio : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
Most modern grinders use a cup wheel like this one Illustrated descriptive catalogue patent labor-saving wood-working machinery
Although most now have a vertical grinding wheel spindle and the wheel head travels up and down the ways with the knife bar being stationary .
Regards,
Jim

Hello again fellas,

Thanks for all of the posts. Instead of going out there yesterday, I went this morning instead. Before I post the pictures and narrative, I'd like to tell you a little story that, I'm sure most of you guys could relate to.

Three weeks ago I ended up buying a shaper. I didn't tell my girlfriend... kinda on purpose... .... so she phones me to tell me that she's on her way over.... ... so I go down to the shop to try and hide the shaper... I end up covering it with some old sheets and thought that if I leaned my "bright red" stepladder against it, she'd never know.... the thing is.... that was the "only" machine that I covered up...
So upstairs she comes with an odd look on her face... like she's thouroughly amused by me.... and I begin to squirm a little... she then asks.... "did you by me a machine for Christmas ?" .... "ummmmm... no, but I did buy me one" ... ahemmmm.... She then shook her head at me and laughed...

So last night we're out Christmas shopping and I say... "Ummm, I saw an add in Kijiji the other day... there's this monastery and machines and, well... I'm going there tomorrow morning... " She stops, smiles and looks me in the eye and says... "So, you've decided to err on the side of caution and tell me straight-off instead of you're "clever" camouflaging ? " .. "You have no self-control, do you ?" I say... "Sure, I have lots ... I think... ummmm... " She says... "Your going to go there and because they're so cheap, you'll end up dragging all of them home, won't you ?"

So I ended up buying 2 of the machines. I should have posted the pics of the lathe first, as I have a feeling that it may have some issues, but I felt that for $100.00 the chuck would be worth that. I realize that I still have to get it home and that'll cost me at least $200.00.

I hope that you've enjoyed my little story and I'm very lucky to have a woman who smiles in amusement at me and my escapades...

So now onto some photos etc. ....

This Calvary Abbey has 10 monks who call it home. These machines used to be housed in a small machine shop on site years ago and have fallen into lack of use. I was met at the reception area by Leo Leblanc complete with robe and belt. A very friendly fellow with a heavy French accent. He directed me to where I would find Steve, a monk in mechanics clothing...



Steve is originally from New Jersey and now calls this abbey his home.

Here's some pics of the grinder...







I'm not sure if the photo is clear enough, but it is made by the "Berlin Machine Works, Beloit Wis." It looks like it would need a lot of work to get it going...

Here's a few of the little shaper...









All of the extra gear is just bolted on but there is no tooling whatsoever for it. It looks like it would have power feed to the table. The back gear has lost a lot of teeth...

I'm going to post this much for now and will be back this evening to post more.

Thanks for your interest...

Brian

Hello all,

I'm back with some more photos...

Here's some pics of the little 15" drill press. The name plate says "A.R. Williams Machinery, St. John, N.B." if the pic isn't clear enough...







Here's a couple of interesting chucks that came with the drill press...



The top one has most of a stamp that I'm guessing reads " Westcott ... Little Giant ... No.1 ... Improved 1913 ... and there is a star...

There was also a bucketful of drill bits and reamers. Most of them would fit the quill..



Here's a few pics of the lathe... "London Machine Tool, London Ont."











There is no lead screw on this lathe yet there is a threading chart ? I looked carefully at both ends as well as the apron and can't see any sign of there ever having been one. There aren't any change gears and no evidence of a banjo on the outboard end. The apron has got to have parts missing. Too many unfilled holes. I may have bought an albatross and just maybe my girlfriend is right... ... but on the bright side, the veeways look to be in really good shape and the cross-slide is consistently smooth and tight all the way across. This lathe has a 10 foot bed... not sure of center to center... and has a 15" 4-jaw chuck on it ... looks like it would swing a full 24".

I wish all of you a merry Christmas...

Brian

I suspect it may have been sold new for some specialized use, hence the lack of a lead screw, but made up from parts that would ordinarily have been used on a conventional threading lathe. My Prentice Bros. lathe (ca. 1880) also has no lead screw but it does have the bosses on the bed (unfinished) that the lead screw would have been mounted in. It also has legs with little doors for the boxes that held the change gears but, of course, there are no gears and the inner parts of the boxes are not there. The holes in the apron are a mystery, unless the maker just used a semi-finished part or it was repaired at some time with a part from a threading lathe. I don't think this would have been an issue around 1880 (which is when I'd guess your lathe was made), especially it it was assembled for a special job.

In any case, good save. I've done some remarkably good work with a lathe that old. It takes a bit of patience and imagination but isn't difficult and can be quite rewarding.

Hello 99Panhard,

I was wondering the same, if it was originally built without a lead-screw. Since I've commited to buying it, I will have the opportunity to have a closer look as I tear it down to see if there is any evidence of having a lead-screw in the past. I really like the graceful lines that this lathe has and the small fleur-de-lis at the apex of the cut-out of the legs. I'm looking forward to getting it home. I still haven't quite finished the re-furb on my other lathe, but I'm almost done. It'll be nice to have another project waiting for me.

Brian

Hello again,

I just googled the company name and came up with a photo of an early London lathe... it has the lead-screw in the rear with the half-nuts engaged by leaning over to throw the lever. I'll try to post a link...

http://www.vannatta.com/london/lathes 004.jpg

I'm almost sure that I saw 2 holes in the rear of the apron.

Brian

Hi Brian,
It is nice that you were able to get the lathe and drill .
There is a thread on the L.M.T. lathe in your link on this forum by member rvanatta who’s web site your link came from .
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...est-london-machine-tool-lathe-located-111755/
If he doesn’t post something you could try sending him a P.M.
There is a little more in this thread.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/macgregor-gourlay-lathes-215881/
This link to the London Machine tool Lathe may work , the one I posted in the thread no longer seems to work .
BUNKER04 Record
I think I had seen more information some where .
I will try and post again in a few days if I find something .
I think that A.R Williams may have been the dealer for the drill rather than the maker .
It looks to me like there is a name cast on the upper cross bar but I can’t make it out.
No doubt some of the other members will recognize it from a distance.
Regards,
Jim

Hello Jim,

Thanks for the encouragement. I did notice the raised lettering on the cross arm of the drill press but couldn't make it out. I was being "kit-tened to death by a very affectionate barn cat who sought me out at every turn... climbing the lathe, mill, drill, etc. to vie for my affections the whole time that I was looking at the machines. I will be picking up the drill press on Monday and will keep everyone posted.

Brian

The drill press looks like a W. F. & John Barnes. The lathe probably had a rear or center lead screw.
Andy

Berlin Machine Works was a builder of woodworking machinery. They were the predecessor to Yates, later Yates/American. Those grinders were sold for slotted planer and jointer knives as mentioned by another poster. The machine is pre-1918.

Eric

Hello Andy,

I'm sure that you're right about a rear leadscrew. If you scroll up a few posts you'll see a link that I posted of another London lathe with the rear leadscrew. I can't imagine that this lathe was sold without one, but maybe.... It would be a shame if it originally had one and it, as well as all the change gears, the rear casting, brackets and half-nuts have gone missing.

Thanks for the educated guess about the drill press. I'm sure that it will be a fun "small" project for me.

Best regards...

Brian

Hello Eric,

Thanks for the info on the grinder. I hate to see any of this machinery end up at the scrap yard, but I have only so much room. I may yet buy the milling machine, but the grinder is out of the question. If there is any interest, let me know

Brian