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  1. #21
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    I have the 900 series Rubber Flex collets, complete set and D1-6 holder. Wasn't bad but had .001/002 runout. I had a problem with ground drill points cutting oversize, Wanted to test them in 5C collet spin jig. 5C will not hold a drill well by the flutes. I screwed in a threaded aluminum bushing in the collet stop then bore the bushing to drill size. That helped and drill ran true. But my lathe don't accept 5C, Do have Hendey collet set.
    Have been thinking of making a holder that uses 2 ER collets, might be able to use that type in my Darex Drill grinder, have 3 of them but a complete set of drill holders for one.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    I have the 900 series Rubber Flex collets, complete set and D1-6 holder. Wasn't bad but had .001/002 runout.making a holder that uses 2 ER collets, might be able to use that type in my Darex Drill grinder, have 3 of them but a complete set of drill holders for one.
    Rubberflex manual tells yah how to take that TIR down to 'nuttin. Online if you haveth not. Grinding not generally wanted.

    See also Ortlieb, "Quadro" IIRC, for use of paired rubberflex "type" as you are considering with paired ER? Ortleib's angles are rather different and if i read between the lines even the clamping action is not identical to Rubberflex, they just look as if it SHOULD be?

    Neat system. I've not seen a price as I know in advance "not in MY playtoy budget!!!

    Especially not as it expects a CNC spindle and power closer as a Mothership!

    But as inspiration for a shop fab with "some" of its rich feature set (rubber OR steel spring collets, same host?).

    Have a look!

  3. #23
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    I can chuck a drill 5/8" drill rod or dowel pin in the Rubber Flex collet and get sub .001 runout. But the helix on the drill limits the area to hold. twist rate is about 3-3/8"/ turn and its double helix. Width of the margin is .075". Problem is collets are not long enough in gripping area. Now my 6 jaws are about 3" long, master jaw is at least 1/8" below soft jaws so they do not contact the drill. Jaws are bored 5/8", distance between the jaws is at the most 1/8". Shank without flutes cut is 1-29/32". I cut 1/2" X 1-1/2" + 1/16" from chuck jaws so only 11/32 of round shank in in the chuck jaws. Clearance grind of the land ends about 2-3/4" from the end so that results in a land without margin that helps chucking. when I de-burr the edges and extend the drill away from chuck jaws drill will not run true if gripped on margin only. I'm thinking of not de-burring in 6 jaw chuck with soft jaws, they scare me so might set Rubber Flex in another lathe to de-burr.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    I can chuck a drill 5/8" drill rod or dowel pin in the Rubber Flex collet and get sub .001 runout. But the helix on the drill limits the area to hold. twist rate is about 3-3/8"/ turn and its double helix. Width of the margin is .075". Problem is collets are not long enough in gripping area. Now my 6 jaws are about 3" long, master jaw is at least 1/8" below soft jaws so they do not contact the drill. Jaws are bored 5/8", distance between the jaws is at the most 1/8". Shank without flutes cut is 1-29/32". I cut 1/2" X 1-1/2" + 1/16" from chuck jaws so only 11/32 of round shank in in the chuck jaws. Clearance grind of the land ends about 2-3/4" from the end so that results in a land without margin that helps chucking. when I de-burr the edges and extend the drill away from chuck jaws drill will not run true if gripped on margin only. I'm thinking of not de-burring in 6 jaw chuck with soft jaws, they scare me so might set Rubber Flex in another lathe to de-burr.
    Lazy, Iyam.

    Sometimes the best way to do a given task is? "Not at all".

    I'd assign those drills to whatever use they serve with ZERO modification.

    I'd acquire drills that needeth ZERO modification for wotever TF you are trying to make the current tribe of drills better suited to doing.

    It's just drills. They are a consumable commodity. Manufactured in insanely large numbers as to annual production volume, even.

    If not useful for one thing, they can be used for some other thing.
    "In the fullness of time.."

    Or, when time itself is "of the essence"?

    Shortened by what some call "horse trading"?

    Tell PM what you have now and what you need going forward.

    Somebody - or some combination of "bodies". just might have a use for what you have, un-altered. Some OTHER member(s) might already have what you need instead. Not in need of alteration.

    "etc"

    Just because we CAN machinashit doesn't mean we need to create dum-dum work for ourselves.

    Old Management saw:

    You need something done FAST?

    - Always assign it to the man already BUSIEST.

    You need something done "for keeps". So it never needs looked at even a second time?

    - Always assign it to the LAZIEST man.

    A truly LAZY man cannot be bothered allowing a problem to take-root, grow children, and become an annoying life-long "career".

    That sort of s**t interferes with shagging and siestas. Just not on.
    The fix will be a permanent one.

    "P.S". I don't turn down drill shanks "many at a go" at all.
    I arrange to mount a larger chuck or collet, use a different driver, or send the work to he who has the appropriate resources, already.

    Exactly ONCE.

    I keep tellin' y'all

    "Lazy, Iyam"


    And "lazy" is actually one of mankind's most valuable skills.

    "Lazy" is part of why we no longer have to take a vacation at a tropical beach by walking and swimming naked, traveling for a month on bare feet just to GET TO the beach, "etc".

    Naked and barefoot is for AFTER you have hit the beach!

    Whilst hard-working Frank is the one still back at the lathe f****g with those g'damned drills.

    Good man, Frank is. Bit stubborn. You'd have to know the Pennsyltuckians?
    But a good man, nonetheless!



    I did say "lazy"? That's part of being a "Virginia Gentleman". Nooo.. not the one in the bottle! That was Colonel Bowman's CHEAP stuff.. what yah want is ....

  5. #25
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    I get paid well to reduce the shanks! I'm retired so I'm not interested in production jobs! Keeps the shop paid so I have it for my toys, I shoot Pistol Competition so do all the work on mine and my son's guns plus a few friends.
    My customer has a good business selling them to hobbyist! They are used on plastic, some of these guys make some outstanding items!!!
    Simply put most can't chuck larger than 1/2". S&D drills are too short but I do a few that are 7/8" and larger! They All get re-ground to 90° point angle. No I will not do them for anyone else, my customer and I have become friends so I will not sell direct nor do I want the hassle! My guess is most of his customers are retired and like to make the items like those guys that make engines so small you can hold them in one hand! I take my hat off to those guys! Outstanding work!! Useless yes but simply amazing! Most of the CNC guys wouldn't know where to start!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    I get paid well to reduce the shanks! I'm retired so I'm not interested in production jobs! Keeps the shop paid so I have it for my toys, I shoot Pistol Competition so do all the work on mine and my son's guns plus a few friends.
    My customer has a good business selling them to hobbyist! They are used on plastic, some of these guys make some outstanding items!!!
    Simply put most can't chuck larger than 1/2". S&D drills are too short but I do a few that are 7/8" and larger! They All get re-ground to 90° point angle. No I will not do them for anyone else, my customer and I have become friends so I will not sell direct nor do I want the hassle! My guess is most of his customers are retired and like to make the items like those guys that make engines so small you can hold them in one hand! I take my hat off to those guys! Outstanding work!! Useless yes but simply amazing! Most of the CNC guys wouldn't know where to start!
    Guess I'm weird-lazy some ways. Got tooling put by for a ton of "just in case I ever haftas". Prolly an over-reaction from dirt-poor company toolrooms and first pair of a poor man's steal-toads five bucks outta that first Union-scale paycheck.

    A Hardinge scroll-operated 6" TWO jaw chuck that might be one way to go at it with a simple Vee-block shape to the tall top-jaws? Repeats well. That's a possible time-saver? Not as easy gittin the Vee to dead-nuts as bored rounds, but then again one or both jaws could have an adjuster screw?

  7. #27
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    Soft jaws in 6 jaw chuck is working well. BTC 6 jaw chuck is in excellent condition,like new. Soft jaws were new unused just mounted. But this job I get only about 2 or 3 times a year, I'm happy with that! But now I have a nice 6 Jaw chuck with only soft jaws I don't want to use for anything else so I started this thread looking for a set of hard top jaws that might come in handy some day only if it increases the selling price if I decide to get rid of it. Another plan I have is to make another drill holder for my Darex drill grinders. Possibly with a ER type collet on one side and a 100-TG on the other. But now I want hard jaws.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    Soft jaws in 6 jaw chuck is working well. BTC 6 jaw chuck is in excellent condition,like new. Soft jaws were new unused just mounted. But this job I get only about 2 or 3 times a year, I'm happy with that! But now I have a nice 6 Jaw chuck with only soft jaws I don't want to use for anything else so I started this thread looking for a set of hard top jaws that might come in handy some day only if it increases the selling price if I decide to get rid of it. Another plan I have is to make another drill holder for my Darex drill grinders. Possibly with a ER type collet on one side and a 100-TG on the other. But now I want hard jaws.
    Download the ladner.fr jaw catalog. I actually buy from France. But once in a great while only. There are US sources.

    I suggest that one because it has always had a superb collection of an outrageous variety of top jaws. There could easily be BETTER ones but the exercise is to ID the spec used and its dimensions.

    Not SURE but "BTC" may have been the enterprise that was once called "Basic Time Co.". First pruduct? Hardware add-on real-time clock for computers that did not yet have one of their own! Then 'puters DID grow an on-PCB clock!

    So of course they soon had to find other ways to earn a crust! ISTR keyboards were next?

    "been a while..



  9. #29
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    Down loaded Ladner catalog in English. 200 ISO is darn close, in metric but converted to inch. But they show 3 mors and 4 mors (I assume mores is jaws) but not 6. I did message the guy selling Bison 8" 6 jaw chuck jaws in ebay, he responded and said he will get the dimensions but hasn't replied yet.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    Down loaded Ladner catalog in English. 200 ISO is darn close, in metric but converted to inch. But they show 3 mors and 4 mors (I assume mores is jaws) but not 6. I did message the guy selling Bison 8" 6 jaw chuck jaws in ebay, he responded and said he will get the dimensions but hasn't replied yet.
    If it is "a standard" then a 6 is two sets of the 3.

    Caveat that master/jaw width is FAT for my uber-stout 6" Yuasa with big strong screws to match, "medium" on most others, and dowright slender on two Swedish SCA.

    Same again a 6" Bison that looks more like a jewel than the average Bison but was probably meant for service on a dividing head or a T&C grinder, not the heavier pounding of engine lathe service.

    The Ladner goods are nicely listed AS to standards, and AFAIK they don't actually stock them, they just pull up a CNC program and make whatever the orders call for as they arrive. A bit of detective work finds a rather modest sized factory, can't be much storage space, so that's my basis for the guess.

    That ALSO means special orders are not unwelcome if their normal day is to jump onto small batch or fewsies if not onesies anyway.

  11. #31
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    3 jaw chucks have 120° angle on the point, every 6 jaw chuck I've seen (there are quite a few on ebay and MSC catalog) have 60° angles on the jaws. If they didn't they would not close. So 2 sets of 3 jaw chucks will not work. Bison jaws on ebay have 60°.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    3 jaw chucks have 120° angle on the point, every 6 jaw chuck I've seen (there are quite a few on ebay and MSC catalog) have 60° angles on the jaws. If they didn't they would not close. So 2 sets of 3 jaw chucks will not work. Bison jaws on ebay have 60°.
    Surely they can work!

    You start out with a nicely matched set of six 3-Jaw top jaws that are a right-decent fit in all other respects? And you hunt you up a "machinashitist" to mill them to the identical new tip-angle.

    Clever f****s, those Machinashitists!

    You oughta see what impossible work they get asked to do for paying CUSTOMERS as have hired "design Engineers" that think "da sign" of brilliance is to f**k something up to where GOD couldn't build the sumbich without having to pay royalties to the Devil!

    Real Machinashitist looks at that print, cocks one eye, sez "How soon do you need it?" Delivers it a day early, gets paid eight months later.

    God laughs, sez "I got good HELP you dum' sumbich!" Lets Satan pick up the bar tab, and settle for the soul of that fool Da sign Engineer 'stead of royalty money.

  13. #33
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    Got the dimensions from the ebay seller for the 8" 6 jaw chuck jaws. They are only 3-1/16" long 200ISO is 3.5" long and so is my master jaws yet all the other dimensions are the same! Guess I'll hafta keep looking. I don't want to spend a fortune for the Jaws. Actually the reason I purchased the chuck from HGR was for the D1-4 pins. I purchased a 4 jaw chuck from HGR cheap yet it was still coated with cosmoline type substance for my son, had D1-4 but no pins. 6 jaw chucks was cheaper than the pins. Removed the pins and put a D1-6 back plate on the 6 jaw chuck and sent the other chuck to my son with the pins inserted.

  14. #34
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    I bought several chucks last year from HGR. The prices are way up now, looks like the best deals are over.
    Last fall, HGR listed several Powerturns, and Hardinge lathes, I picked up Cushman solid steel 4 jaw chucks that came with the Powerturns, and a local guy bought a couple of the Hardinge chucks really cheap.
    The problem I had with them was bad packaging, one chuck, only the box showed up, another big chuck sent freight, came loose from a small pallet, and damaged some other freight. No harm to the chuck though.
    Old chucks like this 12" steel Cushman direct mount for both d1-6 and A-6 spindles are a nice piece of history to find.

    It did take several hours scrubbing with acetone/atf fluid mix, with brass brush to bring it back to this.

    Often, old rusty 4jaw chucks have been used very little like this one.

  15. #35
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    Yes, HGR's prices have gone way UP! They did sell items at quite low prices, as they were not purchased prices came down to just about scrap. My salesman (Guy I always go to) said they had a scrap dealer that did give them high scrap prices. I'll bet he was selling parts! But great prices were available! Now it seems like last chance items that are junk are at quite a bit higher prices than scrap. In the past I got some great deals, I have 2 Chushman 4jaw independent/universal chucks that I got at scrap price and are in perfect condition. It might be me but I seem to think machinery is not selling and when they make it to last chance the price is still high, About a week ago I seen a bearing that just came in, had very high price in the tens of thousands of dollars. I went back a day later to get the information for here as something to laugh at, Kinda the bearing for the collector that has everything and it was sold! The weight of the Bearing was 882 pounds!

  16. #36
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    I managed to tool up 3 old machines, during this covid thing pretty cheap, from HGR, and ebay, looks like prices are way up again.
    The chuck above was $270 including freight.

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    I picked up quite a few chucks from HGR that were new or used very little for well under $100. All the chucks I got are in good shape since I look at the photos well! Did get a boat anchor, and odd 3 jaw chuck that seems to close like a keyless drill chuck. Jaws are independently adjustable. But!!! the housing was cracked and welded back together, it's at least 12" dia. and very heavy! I'll probably disassemble it and scrap any thing I don't think I'll ever use. Check out the Youtube video of a place in TX, guy that made the video visited the location, kinda long winded in the beginning but wait until he puts up the site, makes HGR look like someones garage! More chucks and steadies than I've ever seen in one place!!! I don't want credit for finding that video, it was posted in PM by someone else I can't remember who but I book marked it since I'm looking for a few steadies.

  18. #38
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    That's our member Steve Watkins, here's one of the videos of that place in Tomball, just north of Houston, Texas.

    Bcbloc02 Needs a New Chuck... Old Machine Tool Warehouse Revisited. - YouTube

    Ken


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