8" Milling Vise Identification Help Please

Hi,
The following vise was attached to a Milling Machine I recently purchased. I plan on running it as I have no funds for a different one.
If anyone recognizes it could they let me know the make/model and then I can do some research on it.
Disregard the strap around it, i'm doing some maintenance on the mill and that keeps it from tipping over forward!
Thanks,
Chris

Could this old vise be a cheap chinese unit as i can find no identification on it? Do not know the age but guess at least 20-30 years.

KBC used to sell a series of vises sort of like that. I considered buying one when Kurts cost the world. Then the clones became available shortly after and got one of them to start.

Can't remember if it was English or French pattern, so not much real help.

Seems they were a high quality vise, better than BP's own offering at the time. IIRC, my biggest objection was they don't open very far, for the same width as a Kurt? Think the 6" opened maybe 4-1/2"

smt

I'd call it functional and not worry about the actual brand.

This is my first mill so I'm sort of asking for that kind of input I guess. So this is a vise that a hobbyist could happily use and I shouldn't get worried about KURT etc.
Thanks everyone.

Machine shops made a lot of good parts with vises like that before the KURT vises came along. The biggest problem with the older style vises is that even brand new the work would "lift" off the parallel(s) next to the movable jaw. The technique most often used to combat this was to just "snug" the vise jaw to the work, then tap the part down using a dead-blow hammer; finally, finish tightening the vise to secure the part against cut pressure.

If you decide you want a modern Kurt vise, you can ship me that old worthless beater.
My new mill does not have a vise.

I'd use the vise until you run into a problem with the vise. It seemed to work ok for the previous owner. Beware if there are any sharp corners on the base that could cut into your strap. Glad you mentioned why the strap was on there. I'll admit my first though was "I hope he didn't lift the mill that way!"

It looks to me more like a shaper vise (minus the swivel base) than a milling vise. Shaper vises had a more massive moving jaw because the pressure of the tool stroke was generally against it as opposed to pressure against the stationary jaw in most milling setups.

Doesn't look at all like a shaper vise to me. Too small capacity for its bulk; no integral swivel base with 4 corner bolts.

smt

stephen thomas said:

Doesn't look at all like a shaper vise to me. Too small capacity for its bulk; no integral swivel base with 4 corner bolts.

smt

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While many shaper vises do have a 4 bolt pattern base there are others that don't. If you Google "shaper vise images" you'll find several that look similar to the one posted by the OP. A friend of mine has a Leuter and Gueis 17" shaper in his shop with a 12" vise of this style. The vise weighs in the neighborhood of 250 lbs. and has to be lifted and moved with a shop crane.

Shaper Vise vs. Mill Vise

There is a LOT of material in the Archives of this forum regarding shaper vises and what distinguishes them from milling vises.

The moving jaw on many (not all) shaper vises is PULLED closed by the screw, rather than pushed closed as it is on most milling machine vises. The fixed jaw of a shaper vise is on the operator side; the shaper tool's pressure pushes the work toward the fixed jaw.

John Ruth

SouthBendModel34 said:

There is a LOT of material in the Archives of this forum regarding shaper vises and what distinguishes them from milling vises.

The moving jaw on many (not all) shaper vises is PULLED closed by the screw, rather than pushed closed as it is on most milling machine vises. The fixed jaw of a shaper vise is on the operator side; the shaper tool's pressure pushes the work toward the fixed jaw.

John Ruth

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And all of that data varies on the brand and vintage of the shaper.

Rock you are making John's point. The photo you show is a vise that pulls the jaw shut, same as the one on my shaper.



This is a view of the fixed jaw end, typical of a shaper vise, where the screw is reacted through a thrust bearing, pulling the moving jaw along the screw which is supported at both ends of the vise.

If you Google "shaper vise images" you'll find several that look similar to the one posted by the OP. A friend of mine has a Leuter and Gueis 17" shaper in his shop with a 12" vise of this style

Click to expand...

1.) does the friend's vise pull or push with the screw?
2.) is the swivel an integral part of the vise body with a surrounding clamp ring, or does the vise swivel on top of the base like a Kurt?

The OP's vise has a push screw, and does not have the low profile or the integral wide swivel, of a shaper vise.

It can certainly be used on a shaper, but i really doubt it was made for one as opposed to being designed with a milling machine in mind. Some milling vises use pull screws, too. But very few shaper vises or planer chucks use push type main acme screws. (not including the quick setting type with a row of square head grub type screws for a short throw right at the moving jaw)

Shaper vises tend to open at least as far as the width of the jaws, many open farther (mine has 12" wide jaws, it opens somewhere around 14" or 15". This was typical for shaper vises. Until Kurt started the extended grip race, most milling vises (including original Kurts with 6" jaws, 5 to 5.5" opening) opened some fraction of the jaw width, often 80% or less.

I doubt the OP's vise opens 8"?

I did not see any "shaper vises" that looked like the OP's.
I did see several milling machine vises included among the pictures, including Kurts.
There were also a few planer chucks.

smt

Just found this thread - thought I'd add a bit of additional detail. I recently became the owner of a similar vise w/ swivel base. Big and heavy - slightly larger and heavier than a Kurt 6". All hardware is Imperial - so I assume it is USA made.

Finally someone with the same vise

tcarr said:

View attachment 314458
Just found this thread - thought I'd add a bit of additional detail. I recently became the owner of a similar vise w/ swivel base. Big and heavy - slightly larger and heavier than a Kurt 6". All hardware is Imperial - so I assume it is USA made.

Click to expand...

I've got this same vise... This is the only picture I have ever stumbled across. Did you ever find out what it is? Took it all apart and cleaned it up but never seen any markings. On mine the rails, on the bottom, that hold the moveable jaw are a real pain. Yours seen to sit nice and flush, I think mine are a repair job.

In my lowly opinion, the vise by Tcarr seems to more of a large mill vise than a shaper vise because of the coolant gutters on the vise. Most shapers didn't use coolant whereas most mills did.

JH