Acquired my first lathe. Leblond 15" - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiethesquid View Post
    I do think that I should acquire or make a new lead screw nut for the cross slide as there is a lot of backlash in the current one. What say you!
    I bought a new cross feed screw and nut for my LeBlond 14 inch Tool & Diemaker lathe from LeBlond Ltd.: 888-532-5663

    It was way too expensive, but I rationalized that making accurate, repeatable diameters is the primary function of turning, so I made the leap. Near zero backlash with the new screw and nut!

    Mike

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    I am going to look for a new nut. I think the cross feed screw is good enough to get me going.

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    I had a guy here rebuild a LeBlond screw and make me 2 nuts for it. It's as good as new and it was reasonably priced. Can't remember his screen name though, his real name is Mike. If you can't find anything shoot me a PM and I will send you his phone number.

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    I would like to know his number if you would PM me thanks

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    It may have been our jayhawkman.

    He makes cross feed screws and nuts for South Bend lathes, etc.

    Mike

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    I may try doing it myself when I get the lathe put back together. But I would be interested to hear from someone who has done it before. Anyone ever make the feed nut from Delrin. I hear it is all the rage. Being self lubricating, I hear you can make the engagement very tight and remove almost all of the back lash.

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    G'day Jamie, I've made a cross-slide feedscrew for my 1943 13 inch LeBlond Regal. The original one was in ordinary cast iron so I used that again. The worst part of the whole job was grinding the damned tool bit to the correct dimensions: I cheated and used a HSS tap as an aid to do the grinding. Of course I finished the job using the left hand tap! Then I screwcut a new feedscrew in 1020 using the new nut as a gauge. It did take a few hours and a lot of patience (which I'm not renowned for) and the result was reasonably good. It's been in action for one year but I will replace both nut and screw down the track. Sounds like you've got yourself a keeper with that 15 inch. Regards,

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    So today, I brought out the headstock end leg and commenced scrubbing it down. This leg was definitely the grungier of the two. I started with Dawn and Simple Green. It was slow going. I remembered something I had seen in a YouTube video on machine restoration. Easy Off oven cleaner.

    Holy Cow!!! I sprayed some on walked away for a few minutes. Went back with a small stainless wire brush, 76 years of grease, varnished oil, and oxidized paint, literally dissolved and rinsed away with a garden hose. I am hooked, this is not a first step, and is not for the faint of heart but if you want to really degrease some parts and prep them for paint try it out.

    The first leg I sprayed down with Skyko Ospho, and primed with an etching primer. I think on the outside of the castings where the paint is heavily chipped I might fill with some Bondo and sand it before I paint it.

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    Easy Off oven cleaner likely contains a fairly strong caustic solution, probably lye. Little wonder it made short work of the grunge and oxidized paint.

    I use a caustic based cleaner, bought by the gallon. It is made by a few companies, and the common brand name is "Royal Purple". Maybe not so strong as Easy Off, but same principal. I had tried using various detergents like "Simple Green", "Earth Formula", and various citrus-based detergents ("Citrisolve" being one), for degreasing and cleaning machinery. These detergents barely cut the grunge. I had read about "Royal Purple" or "Industrial Purple" (or somesuch name) on this 'board a few years back. I picked up a jug and tried it. It was quite a change for the better as far as cleaning and degreasing of machinery went.

    Lots to be said for caustic or lye-based cleaning agents when it comes to degreasing and removing grunge. Not the healthiest things to be around, but working outdoors with proper protective gear, I think the lye based cleaners are safer than using gasoline or mineral spirits. I put the "Royal Purple" on with an old paintbrush and with a spray bottle, then after it has "worked" for a few minutes, I rinse it off- along with the grunge.

    We are not the first generation to recognize the grease and grunge cutting power of lye or caustic solutions. Years ago, the major railroads used to submerge ENTIRE steam locomotives in vats of hot lye solution. This was done when the locomotives would be brought in for heavy shopping. After certain equipment and items were stripped from the locomotive, the entire locomotive was pushed onto a track in a kind of elevator cage. This was then lowered into a steam-heated vat of lye solution. After some soaking time, the locomotive would be raised up out of the lye tank and rinsed off. ALL the grunge along with paint had been removed from the locomotive. The Pennsylvania Railroad had a hot lye tank at their Juniata shops, and dunked locomotives coming in for shopping. Coal dust, steam cylinder oil, grease, and dirt mixed with it from running on the railroad would all be cleaned off in the lye tank. Of course, places like the Juniata Shops and the site of the lye tank are now "brownfields"- environmental cleanup sites.

    Another use for Easy Off was by NYC Taxi Drivers. During the 1960's, driving a taxi in NYC put the drivers at risk of holdups or worse. No barriers or partitions separated the drivers from the passengers. I was in engineering school, and some of my classmates took out "hack licenses" and drove taxicabs part time to help pay for their educations. The beauty of driving cabs was it allowed people to fit it into their schedules. So, engineering students might well be "pushing a hack" at all hours of the night, and once a fare hailed them, they were legally bound to stop, pick up the fare and take the fare wherever they requested. The result was a fare might be OK, but the neighborhood the fare had as a destination wasn't. Carrying weapons was frowned upon by the law, so the cabbies often carried spray cans of "Easy Off" Oven Cleaner. They'd keep it in a brown paper bag on the front seat of the taxicab, and if they were accosted or had some threatening situation, they hoped to be able to blast the Easy Off in the face and eyes of their attackers. As the cabbies put it, carrying a pistol was completely against the law and permits were nearly unobtainable. Carrying a knife or club was not a real good idea, and they feared that by the time an attack occurred, they would not be able to use the knife or club from the front seat of a cab. Pepper spray and tear gas were also forbidden, and carrying a weapon like that could get the cabby into more trouble than his assailant. So, the Easy Off was the defensive weapon of choice. As the cabbies put it, if they were questioned after blasting an assailant with it, they'd claim they were bringing it home to clean the oven with.

    Pretty versatile stuff, that Easy Off.

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    Thanks for the reply Joe Michaels, I always look forward to your replies, as you are such a wealth of knowledge and interesting snippets of history.

    I have asked before, but lost the post. What would you recommend for way, spindle, and gear oil for this lathe.

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    Hello Jamie:

    Thanks for the kind words. One of these days, you might share with us how you came to call yourself "the Squid".

    Anyhow, lubricants for the Roundhead LeBlond lathe. I use an ISO 46 turbine oil. This is roughly equivalent to a straight 20 weight non-detergent mineral based oil. The turbine oil is actually known under an ancient designation of "DTE" - Dynamo, Turbine, Engine. I buy jugs of Tractor Hydraulic Oil (2 gallon containers at Tractor Supply), which is an ISO 46 oil with corrosion inhibitors and anti foam additives. Tractor Hydraulic Oil comes under the DTE-medium designation.

    Do NOT use any multi viscosity automobile or diesel engine oils in the headstock or apron. These are detergent oils, and may have anti-wear additives which can attack some "yellow metal" parts (brass and some bronzes) such as worm gears and bushings.

    LeBlond used to recommend a straight 30 weight oil for the roundhead lathes. Even 30 weight was too heavy and tended to sling up around inside the headstock, finding its way out. They revised their spec to a straight 20 weight oil. A DTE medium/ISO 46 oil fills the bill handily. A two gallon jug of tractor hydraulic oil will be more than sufficient for the filling of the headstock.

    Way Lube: you can get some Vactra in the lightest weight. I am guilty of heresy, as I use Husqvarna bar & chain oil. It looks, feels, and acts like way lube. Plenty tacky. Or, I take Lucas Oil Extender and mix it about 50-50 with Tractor Hydraulic Oil and put it in the apron as well directly on the sliding surfaces like the tailstock quill, taper attachment, compound, etc. The Lucas Oil Extender has nothing harmful to yellow metal in it, and adds "tackifiers" to the ISO 46 oil. Makes a good subsitute for way lube. I also add maybe 1/2 pint of the Lucas Oil Extender to the oil in the headstock.

    Do NOT, under any circumstances, put the heavy bodied "hypoid gear oils" used in automotive rears and manual transmissions into the headstock. The antiwear additives and extreme pressure additives will attack yellow metal parts. The weight or viscosity of gear oils, even at their thinner grades (85 weight), as simply too thick for the headstock. Heavier bodied oils tend to be slung around inside the headstock more than thinner bodied oil. Slinging around, the gear lube will find any way out of the headstock it can. Thinner bodied oils, such as the ISO 46, will coat the gears, get thrown around in more of a misting or light spray, and will not find their way out of the headstock.

    I run the Tractor Hydraulic Oil as lubricant in the spindle of my Bridgeport, as well as in the headstock bearings and gearing on my Southbend lathes and my Cincinnati-Bickford Camelback Drill- and the oil cellars on the motor for that drill
    .
    Some may disagree with me on this. I've had no problems with Tractor Hydraulic Oil in my machine tools for over 25 years, nor with the Lucas Oil Extender or the Bar and Chain Oil.

    I know from your postings that you had the lathe apart to get it moved, and for cleaning. The apron on the Roundhead lathes has a spring-loaded plunger pump for lifting oil from the apron and pushing it to some lubrication points. This plunger pump can get stuck with sludged oil on lathes that have been left sitting for some years (it happened on my roundhead lathe, which had sat untouched for about 12 years prior to my getting it). I filled the apron with some diesel fuel and Marvel Mystery Oil and let it soak, then tapped on the pump plunger. At first it stayed stuck in, then came free and popped back out. After working thru the diesel fuel and Marvel Mystery Oil, I wiped thing down and filled the apron with ISO 46 oil and pumped that through, up and out on the bedways and cross slide.
    When I'd flushed the apron, I refilled with more ISO 46/tractor hydraulic oil and Lucas Oil Extender. Been running that in the apron and the Tractor Hydraulic Oil in the headstock since 2012. I also keep a pump oil can filled with tractor hydraulic oil. Before starting my Roundhead Regal lathe, I pump some of this oil into the oil hole covers ("Gits" covers) on the headstock bearings and headstock input shaft. I then hit the oiling points on the quick change box and on the idler gear on the quadrant (hole in the gear guard provided for accessing the spring-ball type oil hole cover in the hub of the idler gear). I then hit the rear support bearings for the lead screw and feed shaft, the tailstock oiling points, and the taper attachment. I have an old pump oil can I fished out of a trash container when I was in college. It had a destroyed flexible spout, so someone threw the whole oiler away. I made an extended spout out of 1/4" outer diameter stainless steel tubing, bent 90 degrees where it comes out of the top of the oil can's pump. This tubing is about 14 or 16" long, allowing me to reach oil points on my camelback drill without climbing too much or reaching into impossible places. I made a nozzle for the end of the extended tubing spout out of drill rod. This nozzle is turned to a tapering point, about 3/32" diameter, with a fine hole drilled thru. I filed a portion off the tapered section of the nozzle. This lets me push in those spring-ball type oil hole covers with the nozzle tip and pump in oil. With a plain nozzle, the ball in those spring-ball type oil hole covers would "valve off" the end of the nozzle. The filed relief exposes about half the bore for a short distance. A small point to discuss, I know, but it makes a handy oiler. The flat filed on the nozzle also works well for opening Gits type oil hold covers without having to reach in with my other hand.

    I use the ISO 46 Tractor Hydraulic Oil pretty much as my only machine tool lubricant, and mixed with the Lucas Oil Extender, it makes a good light-duty way lube. Contrary to some opinions, tractor hydraulic oil is just oil- no friction additives or similar or other additives such as slip additives for certain types of differentials.

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    Thanks again Joe!! I have a Tractor Supply less than 2 miles from me. I will try out the Tractor Hydraulic oil/DTE and Lucas combo. I am a big fan of Lucas stuff. I would love to see some pics of your oil can setup. I have a couple oil cans and I do recall reading an article illustrating filing a slot in the end of the nozzle to allow for better oil passage. My apron oiler moves freely and when I had the apron off I made the mistake of pressing it and it squirted oil out freely.

    When we were rigging and transporting the headstock we got a bit off level and the oil in the headstock poured out freely. The oil was a light golden color and was very clean. The oil in the apron however looked like used black motor oil. I plan to set the apron up on a fixture with a catch pan, pull the drain plug, and when empty flush it repeatedly with diesel or kerosene until it runs clear and refill it with the proper oil.

    Really there is not much of a story behind the "Squid". At 17 years old I joined the Navy as an Airman Apprentice with an S-3 Viking squadron aboard the USS Enterprise CVN-65. After that Enlistment, I went into the Reserves with a C-130 Squadron at NAS Brunswick, ME. I had worked as a Mercedes mechanic, and, a Trackman, and then Dispatcher for Guilford Railroad, among many many other Jobs. I returned to Active duty in 2001 as a Fire control man (FC) on Arleigh Burke Destroyers. Then I volunteered for Submarine duty and converted to Fire Control Technician. During Operation Iraqi freedom I was awarded the duty of Launching 52 Tomahawk Land Attack Cruise missiles in Anger.

    I was a commissioning crew member of the USS Virginia, The first of the newest class of Nuclear Fast Attack Submarines. I left the Navy in 2007, worked as a Realtor for a little while, Took a job at Bath Iron Works, working Combat Systems Test and Evaluation. Did that until 2011 when I was very unexpectedly laid off. Took a job as a welding lead man for 22 months. Then took a job Working for Naval Sea Systems Command, NAVSEA Headquarters at the Washington Navy Yard in DC. Permanently stationed in Bath, ME as the Anti- Submarine Warfare Lead for the Arleigh Burke Destroyers.

    So at the ripe age of 40 I have been working for the US Navy as a Sailor or a Civilian for more than half my lifetime. A colloquial term for a Sailor is a "Squid" and back in the early days of email addresses and internet message boards/forums I adopted the Jamiethesquid handle. I just got back from sea trials on the newest Destroyer yesterday evening.

    Deep, deep in my soul I long to be a true Machinist. I am a tool guy through and through. I hold man's ability to wield a tool and repair and create above most all besides my loving family. At 38 years old I was able to finally find some night classes in Machine Tool at a local tech college. I was beyond excited as normally these classes are only offered during the day. After one semester the classes were not available due to declining enrollment attributed to an improving economy. I was by far the most enthusiast student, the smell of the shop, the sound of the machines, as quickly as I had found my calling it fizzled.

    I spent the money that the GI Bill gave me for "Supplies" on measuring tools so I could arrive at class with a complete set and not go running around the shop looking and scrounging for tools that were often misplaced or abused. My fellow students thought I was bonkers, but my older instructors, recognized this as a level of pride and dedication that few if any of the Millennial generation students even understood. I even went as far as buying my own indexable Carbide facemills and end mills and inserts so I would not have to fight over the cutters on the tool carts that were often abused and even run backwards resulting in ruined carbides.

    I watch dozens of You Tube videos a week on Milling, Lathe, Grinding, Scraping, Metallurgy, Engineering, CNC, Vintage Machinery, etc etc. Right now I am carrying around in my backpack, and reading daily, a 1961 textbook "Machine Tool Metalworking" and a 1958 copy of the South Bend manual how to run a lathe.

    If I won the lottery today, I would set up a machine shop full of Vintage and modern tools and make chips, invent, and create till my last living breath.

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    Here are my school tools.

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    I am also currently restoring a 1960's Craftsman Atlas 618 and a 1953 Shopsmith Greenie Mark V. Now I just need a good shopping list for a small Vintage milling machine. There was this one that Rudy Kahoupt (sp) used in some of his videos that would be perfect. I can't remember what the make was. I will have to re watch those vids.

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  22. #96
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    Jamie:

    Thank you for your service to our country, which continues whether in the US Military or as a civilian.

    You have had an admirable record of service and employment, and your zeal and enthusiasm for learning is a refreshing thing to read about. So many people hit the age of 40 and are complacent or resigned to their lot in life, and life consists of drudging thru work and home life, with "recreation" spent at the malls or sports bars. I wish you every success in your continued quest to learn, not just the machinist's trade but so much more. I tell my wife, kids, and anyone else who I get a chance to tell it to: "The only time you should stop learning is when you are dead... The human mind is infinite, so no chance of overloading or running out of storage space for knowledge... the human mind needs to be exercised or it atrophies, and going to the malls or sports bars and food courts atrophies the mind and gets a person out of shape mentally and physically..." You and I along with the population of good folks who frequent this 'board are likely at or very nearly on the same pages of so many things.

    Your modern machinist "chests" are equally impressive. I am a dinosaur and think in terms of wooden chests or steel toolboxes, or what some mechanics call a "road box" where tools are taken on jobs. You have solved the problems of taking machinist tools "on the road" handily with your cases and fitted foam holders for the mikes and all else. I have a home-made old wooden toolbox that was in a friend's barn. Nothing fancy, old, smelling of the barn and old oil. I put the tools I need for a job such as mikes, bearing scrapers, indicators, precision levels and similar in that box. The tools are in their wood "Starrett" boxes or padded cases, or are loose and wrapped in soft rags. Open the box and start digging when I get to the job. Your cased machinist tools look downright professional, to say the least. I look like an old dinosaur in bib overalls, digging in a wood box, and carrying my pinch bars, wedges, bronze bumping bar, and hammer in a pail, and then lugging in anything heavier.

    I guess age and era are a big factor. I still use HSS toolbits and mills for the most part, but that is in my own shop and not a steady working or production shop. I am a dinosaur in that while I know of the existence and the incredible power of CNC and CAD technologies, I never learned them. I know enough to know that these technologies will carry the day and will do work no human could do on manual machines. You are on the right path, learning manual machine shop work. It is a platform from which a person will have a much better handle for CNC work.

    I'm 66, supposedly "retired" (at least from "regular full time employment), and as a mechanical engineer, had built my career using machine shop work as an important part of the foundation. A knowledge and skill in manual machine shop work carried me through a lot of my career and gave me quite an edge as an engineer as well as supervisor. We are a rare breed these days. Most people do not work on "real things", and their careers are spent in some facet of the business world, or their world is built on "turning the deal". You are rarer yet in that not only do you work on "real things", but your career and work has been vital to our country's (and some parts of the globe's) well being. I am proud to know you through this 'board, and wish you every success as you continue learning machine shop work. A lot is said about the old ways of doing this sort of thing. As I get older, I come to realize a few things: "There is often no single right way to do anything" , and, a person with a good mind, eye, and the ability to develop hand-eye coordination who takes the time to figure stuff out will prevail, even if they do not have the formalized training. I worked as a startup engineer some 40 + years ago on a nuke powerplant. I broke in under ex nuke sub sailors (chief petty officers) and some men who'd been civilian engineers working for the late Admiral Rickover. These guys were merciless on a young engineer. If I asked a question, I had better have exhausted all means of research and reasoning before I asked that question. This was long before computers, just endless rolls of drawings, or walk out in the powerplant under construction and trace piping and look at machinery like pumps or heat exchangers or similar. If I asked a question, the usual first answer was: "You've got eyes in your head, haven't you ?" meaning: go figure it out for yourself by looking, tracing out, studying... and if you hit a wall, then come back and ask me. That sort of training and hard environment developed the sense in me that a person has to be able to use the gifts they were given- their mind, eye, and body- to work things out instead of running to someone else or passing off a hard detail to someone else.

    I know you are cut from the same cloth as the men who broke me in and made me, and I know you will stand strong and go far.

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    The Foam I used for my travel box is Kiazen Foam from Fast Cap.com. http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/Kaizen-Foam-p13435.htm

    It is a closed cell foam that is in 1/8" layers. I stumbled across it a couple years ago. Now I use it for Firearms cases, camera equipment, tools etc. It is very easy to work with and once you've done one project you start looking for other things to use it for. Check out their videos.

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    I stopped at Tractor Supply today and as you said. ISO 46 Tractor Hydraulic oil was in stock at $17.99 for 2 gals. I will pick some up in the next couple days along with some Lucas Oil Extender, which they did not have in stock.



    I took the motor mount off the headstock end leg today which was a simple affair. I have some more clean up to do on this one. But I am thoroughly impressed by how much a couple applications of Easy Off removed. I did notice that the motor was mounted to a thick aluminum plate that was in turn mounted to the swiveling cast iron mount. Apparently this is a replacement motor and the bolt holes did not line up. The motor specs are as of right now unknown. There is a layer of peeling paint and I haven't found any ID plate data yet.

    The tailstock leg that I had ospho'd and primed, showed a little bit of bubbling where the paint went over some deep pitting. This is my fault. Ospho recommends that after application you let it dry overnight. I rushed this and the off gassing that happens where the Ospho is chemically converting the Iron Oxide to Iron Phosphate caused some minor bubbles. I took the bubbles off with a sanding sponge.

    I am in for a bit of rain over the next few days, but when I have my next weather window I intend to sand the primer and give it a bit of tooth and apply some Bondo to the chipped areas. Then I will sand, prime, sand, prime, fill. Until I am satisfied. Then probably paint. So far I am thinking a gloss Black Enamel.

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    Took a wire wheel in the bench grinder to a few parts to clean them up.

    First was the cross feed handle and dial, I didn't get a before picture of the handle.

    I didn't realize the dial was resettable to Zero until I had cleaned it up a bit. The numbering and graduations are quite shallow and faint. Especially the numbering. I wish I had the tools to improve that. I will probably end up using a Dial Indicator for most work but it would be nice to have a more usable dial. Any advice.

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    It is also interesting to me that the cross feed lead screw is 8 TPI which would make one revolution equal to .125". But the dial has .250" graduations per revolution. Which means that this dial reads Diametrically and not direct movement


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