Another Camel Back drill Press.... Looking for info.

I know there is and have been several threads started about the camel back style drill press, I looked @ several of them thinking about asking about this on the tail of one of them but I didn't want to hijack another thread....

I came across this old CB drill Press today, I have been thinking about getting a drill press for a long time and had pretty well decided against it since I have my BP Mill that can be used as a drill press. Then I came upon this a bout a month ago and finally had the chance to ask the owner about it today. It is mine if I want it.... I seems to be calling my name, I just keep asking myself if I really need another project?

I don't really know much about it besides the obvious, I think it is a ...24"?, not sure? It is about 8 to 9' tall and Best guess around 2200 lbs? The base is about 30" wide and I would guess about 4 1/2 to 5' long with the motor base? I guess I am looking for any info you guys may be able to offer good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent? I know these are collectible, that is evident by the amount of discussion about them here on PM. Once one is up and working, are they really worth anything and just how handy is such a Beast of a machine in a small shop?

Here are the photos I snapped today, I was really trying to find a mfg. data plate but no luck.

Thanks for any info and input you guys can offer!
Joe

This is the last couple of pics....

I dont really know about 'collectable' but they're certainly much nicer drill presses than anything made today for heavy shop use, which is why I got my press. Cheaper than a junky harbor freight or grizzly, and vastly superior in capability.

AvrgJoe writes from the top of the slippery slope:

" I seems to be calling my name, I just keep asking myself if I really need another project? "

Yes! She's softly calling "Save me! Take me home ! Dress me up in a new coat of paint! I'll give you hours of pleasure away from your wife! I'll let you fondle my handles !"

Cincinnati-Bickford also made horizontal milling machines and big later-day radial drills. Quality machines. They are not just collectible; they are very useable in any one-man shop that is not subject to OSHA.

What size Morse Taper in the spindle? Does it come with any drills or chucks?

John Ruth

SouthBendModel34 said:

AvrgJoe writes from the top of the slippery slope:

" I seems to be calling my name, I just keep asking myself if I really need another project? "

Yes! She's softly calling "Save me! Take me home ! Dress me up in a new coat of paint! I'll give you hours of pleasure away from your wife! I'll let you fondle my handles !"

Cincinnati-Bickford also made horizontal milling machines and big later-day radial drills. Quality machines. They are not just collectible; they are very useable in any one-man shop that is not subject to OSHA.

What size Morse Taper in the spindle? Does it come with any drills or chucks?

John Ruth

Click to expand...

That is the same way I got sucked into the SBL family! She was whispering to me in that old barn.... the rest is history!

As far as drill bits, drills or chucks.... no, The current owner picked it up at an equipment auction as is thinking his father in law might like it... not so much. Now it is just setting there.

It has a tapping attachment (quick forward/reverse) which is a handy feature even if you aren't tapping. One of the drills I used to own had a tapping attachment, and I still miss it.

Andy

Andy FitzGibbon said:

It has a tapping attachment (quick forward/reverse) which is a handy feature even if you aren't tapping. One of the drills I used to own had a tapping attachment, and I still miss it.

Andy

Click to expand...

Good info!! thanks! I have no idea what piece is the tapping attachment but I would guess if it has that it also has a power feed? Can you be a little more specific as to what you see that I don't know what I am looking at?

As I am digging around I found this, I think it is the correct machine? it is listed as "1922 Cincinnati Bickford Tool Company,Upright Drill Presses"

The tapping attachment is what you see in your 3rd picture, the two horozontal gears vertically paralell to eachother with the vertical gear off the top drive shaft. That's so you can swap direction rapidly by changing which gear is interfacing with the drive gear. In that same photo the vertical keyed shaft in the foreground is the top of the auto feed mechanism. Because that drill press is a sliding head drill press, the auto feed also has a long vertical keyed shaft to slide up and down as the head does.

That's a very capable machine which just looks like it's in need of some TLC to be a workhorse again.

justin.mercier said:

Because that drill press is a sliding head drill press, the auto feed also has a long vertical keyed shaft to slide up and down as the head does.
That's a very capable machine which just looks like it's in need of some TLC to be a workhorse again.

Click to expand...

Keep talking about it that way and it will be home with me

Thanks again!

I can here it calling your name all the way up here Joe...

And it IS the season for giving and receiving gifts...

Link to an old post showing some of its brothers-

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/cincinnati-32-drill-196760/

Avrgjoe said:

Keep talking about it that way and it will be home with me

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

You know you want it. We know you want it. Give up now and go get it.

As has been said many times previously, you'll regret passing on a machine far more than you'll regret getting it.....

FWIW I never use my B/port as a drill press. That's what drill presses are for.

PDW

Good pics! that gold machine is really nice! I have 2 questions.... 1)in the 3rd pic I see some kind of angle iron rigged up on the top by the shaft, any idea what that might be? and 2)Ant words of wisdom on a fair price for such a machine? I don't think the motor works, I will have to either repair or replace it.

Regarding upright (camelback) drill presses, the one you've found is a class above most others. As we have found over the last five or ten years, there are still actually quite a few of these old workhorses lurking in old shops and barns, and it seems more and more are turning up every week, because, well, more and more guys are getting turned onto them and watching for them. Most are of the typical pattern, 20 or 21 inch, backgeared, flat-belt machines that may or may not have been modfied for use with a stand alone electric motor.

I currently have 4 upright (camelback) drills, ranging from 20" to 22". I would a make "your's" my fifth in a heart-beat if given the chance. It is much more robust than most, with the afore-mentioned tapping attachment, sliding quill support, rear full height support for the cone pulley, etc, etc. This was the immediate predecessor to the Cincinnatti-Bickford Super Service line of drill presses.

Really, if you have room, get this machine! Once you clamp a thick plate of cold rolled onto the table, throw an 1-1/2" or 2" MT4 drill into the spindle, engage the powerfeed, and turn her loose, you'll know why you needed and wanted this machine. The monstrous, perfect chips curling up out of the hole let you know that you've entered the big league of hole drilling, and the smile that cracks your face from ear to ear will put any trepidation of your "get" far, far away.

JcS

Highspeed said:

Really, if you have room, get this machine! Once you clamp a thick plate of cold rolled onto the table, throw an 1-1/2" or 2" MT4 drill into the spindle, engage the powerfeed, and turn her loose, you'll know why you needed and wanted this machine. The monstrous, perfect chips curling up out of the hole let you know that you've entered the big league of hole drilling, and the smile that cracks your face from ear to ear will put any trepidation of your "get" far, far away.

JcS

Click to expand...

That's why I looked for mine, modern drill presses are terrible at drilling through steel, they run far too fast and with too little torque to do the job. I'm a hobby blacksmith & bladesmith and my drill press just wasn't cutting it anymore. I kept burning up drillbits left and right.

My wife came home late last night and I was anxious to show her my new find, immediately she had one reply.... LETS GO GET IT! I really am one lucky SOB to have a wife so supportive of such things. Even my nearing 70 year old retired machinist dad, his first response...."where did you find that dinosaur?" I think my South Bend Lathe restoration is what convinced my wife that this too could be something really cool! With her support, it looks like I will probably go get it. I am guessing with the holidays it might be a week or 2 before I can go.

Not that I am looking to sell this beast, everyone that knows me, knows that I don't ever get rid of much, especially tools! I am curious none the less, Once it is up and working, what do these things sell for? I really have not seen a lot of them for sell. I am just wondering for my own information, maybe as a "how much should, or better yet, should not" be spent on repairing/restoring this machine?

I have a 25" Cincinnati Bickford "Camelback" drill press and a Bridgeport. I also have a 15" (?) Powermatic drill press. Each machine tool has its uses. The Bridgeport is a lighter-duty vertical milling machine. If you read the manual on a Bridgeport Series I mill with J or 2J head, you will find that the maximum capacity drill to be run under power feed is only 3/8". A Bridgeport is fine for running drills up to about 1/2" and for running reamers and for locating holes using the X & Y micrometer collars. It is not a machine for rough work or heavy work. Putting a turned-shank (Silver & Deming) type of drill in a Bridgeport is not a good idea. I keep my Bridgeport for milling and finer work.

The Powermatic drill sees the everyday drilling, the quick jobs where it's a matter of hitting a centerpunch mark and making a hole, up to 1/2" or maybe 9/16" in steel.

The Cinncinnati Bickford camelback drill sees all the heavier drilling. Mine is a lighter machine than the one you have found. It is a basic camelback drill with number 3 MT spindle. It is probably older than yours, but was also sold by Henry Prentiss. I can push a 1 1/4" taper-shank drill thru hard alloy steel with my C-B drill. I use it a lot for heavier drilling and reaming. I keep a set of "jewelry" with the drill, as it is up in my garage. The "jewelry" is tee-nuts to fit the table slots, hold down stud bolts, slotted dogs, a vise, wedge keys to remove tapered drills, reducing sleeve to get down to number 2 MT, and a few chucks and arbors. I lucked into a 1" Jacobs chuck for my C-B, but mostly keep a 3/4" chuck in the spindle. I also made up an oil can with a long spout made of 1/4" OD steel tubing, and brazed on a pointed nozzle. This lets me reach a lot of the oilers on the machine.

I use mine for drilling stuff like structural steel (angle, channel, plate), and for heavier machine shop types of jobs. I've had the drill running to where I was taking the chips up with a shovel and putting them in a wheelbarrow (drilling 1 1/4" holes in spring blanks for the leaf springs on a locomotive).

I paid 200 bucks for my C-B drill. It is nowhere near the machine yours is. It was shipped with inch/metric graduations on the quill, and has the original factory motor (a single phase 3 HP repulsion induction motor). My drill saw reasonable use, so the table has very few stray holes in it. Nothing broken or brazed or missing. I had to put a set of brushes in the motor, and this was the big expense of about 60 bucks at the time (over 10 years ago). I also had to replace the spindle thrust bearings as these were pretty noisy and worn. I was able to get direct replacement ball thrust bearings from Kaman Bearing. The result is the machine is quiet, tight, and does what I need it to do.

The tapping feature looks like it would come in really handy if you were tapping a lot of heavier sized holes (maybe at least 3/4-10 or bigger). I do not think you will spend a whole heck of a lot on the restoration of the machine. Some solvent like kerosene or "Varsol" to wash off the grunge, or a detergent degreaser like Zep's "Industrial Purple" (lye solution, will strip pain if left on long enough, washes off with water), some steel wool and "Scotchbrite" pads to take off the surface rust and some lubrication would be about all I'd see needed for supplies. Clean the machine, get the gunk out of the various gearing and mechanisms, and you may be surprise to find the machine has not seen all that much use-judging by the table not being like Swiss cheese. If you are up for it, a coat of paint never hurt, but you may be seeing the factory enamel on that machine.

What you will need is to start accumulating tapered-shank drills. Nothing beats a tapered shank drill for making a large hole (other than maybe the new hollow end mills like "Hougen" or Jancy Slugger). You will also need some MT reducing sleeves to let you run smaller MT shank drills and chucks with smaller MT tapered arbors. A good pump type oil can and a short step ladder so you can reach the various oil cups and oil holes, and some "open gear lube" on the bevel pinion and crown gear and on the back gears, some lighter grease on the feed gearing- I keep the oil can and the open gear lube in easy reach of my C-B drill. When you are not using the drill, get in the habit of taking the flat belts off the pulleys. Slide them to a side. This lets the belts contract and keeps them from getting stretched and loose in humid weather.

Other than that, never take this drill press for granted or get remotely familiar with it. It is a LOT of machine tool. It is NOT some vee-belt driven round column drill press. It will not hesitate to grab the work, vise, and you with it and wrap all of the above around the drill or spindle. It has a LOT more torque than a round column light-duty drill press, and you need to take the time to clamp or dog the work (or vise) to the table when using this drill.

Other than that, if you lived closer, I'd offer to trade you the heavier C-B you've found for my lighter camel back C-B.

Joe,
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your information and knowledge about the CB Drill. Nine to hear that kind of input from a user of a similar machine. If you have a picture of yours I would love to see it. This whole thread is so reminiscent of the South bend thread I started: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/old-southbend-found-barn-buy-not-240915/ I really didn't know if I wanted it either and now I cant imagine not having it.

Go for it! You will find a use for it eventually.

Buy it you will like it . I have an old camelback that I have used for 20 years yours looks to be in better condition mine is missing the power down parts also had the flat belt drive with an electric motor set off to the side. Works good as stated before clamp it down good the press will not stop until something breaks.
I recently got another drill this one a radial drill and a Cincinnati bickford it will put a 1" hole in2 PC 3/4 plate clamped together while other drills are thinking about it. I really like it . I have pictures of it on here under machinery photos , Cincinnati Bickford radial drill. I gave about $900 for it put another motor on it that I had laying around bought a 3/4 chuck # 4 morse taper adaptor to a #2 morse taper $150. Then I put a compound milling table on it and then put an 8"drill press vice on top of that line up is really nice and easy.
Good luck with yours if you buy it.