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Another Cataract Bench Miller

Burton LeGeyt

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Boston, MA
I responded to a local Craigslist Ad last week and ended up with, among other things, a little Cataract Bench Miller. It is even smaller than I thought it would be, noticeably smaller than even my Stark bench mill.

Condition is good/bad. The good being that most of it is in very good usable shape. X, Y, and Z all travel smoothly through their full range and x and y even have double nuts in a configuration I have never seen before. I was able to dial in the backlash to almost zero. I do need one 1/4-26 screw to fully lock in the Y nut, the head had broken off of the one on the machine but I was able to get it out.

The very small square ends that drive the screws are all slightly bent but work fine with the large round handles. The locks for the Y and Z are beautiful and slender and also lock well.

The headstock is in very nice shape, what I imagine is the original bearing scraping is still visible in the cast iron bearings. I was worried when I opened up the front and saw no felt ring and a few chips but I don't think it was ever really run like that, inside of that was fine. I cleaned and re-oiled and replaced the felt.

The bad, obviously, is the poor mangled slots in the table. Someone really did a number in it, it will need to be repaired. I'm undecided on what to do the repair with and whether or not to include the v down the middle when I do. It is hard to imagine ever finding the little indexer that goes with it but I guess I never expected to find the miller either- No vise either although I see there is 1 on ebay right now that looks about right. Likely that will go for more than I paid for the mill!

I see what I imagine are the mounting spots for the power feed box under the table on the left side. I also see that the leadscrew does not have a slot running down it and therefore likely this was shipped without the power feed? I also imagine that the lock screws (the allen screws in the photo) for the stops on Y and Z are not original.

I know a few other people have these and if anyone has pictures of details I don't have I would be very interested in seeing them. I would also be curious as to when it was built, I think the fact that it has the hollow rectangular base and is stamped Chicago helps narrow that down? I don't have any catalogs that old and did not find that info on Tony's site.

Larry, I am hoping you see this and can shed some light on that.

bench-miller-whole.jpgbench-miller-brass-tag.jpgbench-miller-mangled-table.jpgbench-miller-underside-left.jpgbench-miller-underside-righ.jpg

Burton
Boston, MA
 
The serial numbers place it around 1928-1930, right at the end of the Chicago plant.

I have an indexer and tailstock, a vise and a power feed attachment with the slotted table screw that I would sell. Yes, this is rare and expensive stuff.

The cranks are not correct. The three position adjustments should have 1/4" male squares. There should be three simple cranks with 1/4" holes.

I have several of these mills and most have damaged tables. An old guy in Chicago told me some shops had extra tables for these mills and kept tooling for production jobs on the tables. They changed the whole table instead of changing just the tooling. But I have never seen an orphan table. The answer is probably hunks of cast iron bar and a lot of careful machining.

Larry
 
Ive been sitting here for a few minutes trying to decide how on earth you could cause that much damage to the T-slots? Obviously pulled something right out, but, frankly, I am amazed that little mill would have enough umph. Obviously I am ignorant to the power of these little guys!
 
Thanks Harold-

Gargamel, yes I got a BB49 lathe as well with an older compound with the tapered dials. Both pieces were on a nice bench with separate countershafts and motors. Those are surplus for me but I have a friend who I hope will make good use of them. I was mostly interested in the mill. Apparently none of it had really been run in 25 years, the fellow who had it had been given it and never really took to them. He was very happy to have them out of his basement and I was lucky to be online when it was listed. You are in Boston? You are welcome to swing by if you are interested in seeing it.

Larry, thank you very much for the info. Interesting that the cranks are not correct, they didn't seem quite up to the quality standard of the rest of it but the color was pretty correct and they looked like the handles from one of the mills on Lathes.co so I wasn't sure. I'll inquire about your parts but likely don't have the funds right now.

I have some durabar for those middle slots- It is a shame about the original details but it shouldn't be too bad a repair. I'm looking forward to treating it better than it was in the past.
 
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Hello Burton, Harold pointed me to this thread, because I have a mill a lot like yours, but mine is just an older version (its also the lathe version, with its own stand alone base, but same idea)

Nice mill, looks to be in good shape except for the table... Ouch. I would guess that center slot is easy to chip out like that since it hase the beveled edges. Here is a picture of an original Hardinge wrench that would have come with the mill, notice its only about 3" long, a little hard to apply to much force and damage the table with a wrench this short:

025_zps04f0b848.jpg


Also in that picture is the handle for the little cataract vise, I am not positive, but I think the handles for your vintage mill would look something like this vise handle, instead of the round handle currently on your mill.

Here is a picture of the handle style used on my "older" mill:

016_zps75929d88.jpg


Since the older mills have both the knee feed and the table in/out feed in line with eachother the handle is ment to be removed and placed on either feed as needed. The table left/right feed has a handle like the one shown in the picture permanantly attached.

Here is a picture of the table travel stops that I don't see on your mill:

017_renamed_30954_zps8d2a7311.jpg


And here is a photo of the power feed mounted under the table where you have the screw holes in the saddle:

023_zps22a0ede8.jpg


I am not sure how to go about repairing the table, I might attempt to make an entirely new table out of some cast iron. That center angled slot is important for all the accessories that get used with the mill.

I know my mill isn't exactly like yours, but if you need any info or pics let me know, I also have some of the accessories if you need to know anything about them.

Tyler
 
If I was going to use it, I probably wouldn't bother with a repair in that area.

But if I was going to repair it, I wouldn't try to creep up on it. Just get a stick of Durabar in class 40 and make the whole table from scratch. It is not really that big a job. Assuming another, say BP size mill.

Per your comment, the center slot would be stronger if you did not duplicate it as original. But it sounds like this is more a collector/play item for you as opposed to every day work horse (unless I misread between the lines?) In which case i would put it as original, treat it with care, and keep watching for the accessories. I have the Elgin convertible dividing head on the swivel base, and either alone or on the base it would really work better with a table with the original slot.

elgindivide1.jpg


smt
 
Tyler, Thanks for posting those photos! I had seen the thread about your mill and had looked it over a few times and I appreciate the close ups posted here. Maybe it would be better to make the table again from scratch. It is so small it would be pretty simple, dialing in the V would be the tedious part. Per Larry's comment, if I am making one maybe it makes sense to make a few, they would be very simple to swap out. If I did that I might make one with a gear rack installed underneath and mount a lever on those 2 mounting points. Hmmm...... I think there is even a reproduction of a part like that on Tony's site.

I will also get started on making the table stops while I am at it. I'll keep an eye out for some original handles but the round ones that are on there actually feel very nice, someone broached in square drives for them and they fit pretty well. My Stark mill has the arrangement where you swap the handles for Y and Z and I like having them separate better even though it really isn't that big a deal to swap them.

I don't have too much hope of finding the power feed and that looks like something still a bit beyond me to make well. I'll leave that one on my 1 in a million list. A small vise though would be nice to have. If you ever have a chance to take measurements off of yours I would like to make one in that style-

Stephen, I have that Elgin head and matched tailstock (without the swivel base or direct indexing plates though) but unfortunately mine has the v milled off the bottom. The rest of it is in great shape though, it was the one painted with the crinkle paint that was on ebay a year or so ago. I paid a fair bit for it but it is great. Seeing your base makes me think I should just make that part with the V and then can use it on the mill. I imagine there would only be a few inches between centers but I guess that is the size these things were built for. The Hardinge indexer can't be that much smaller than the Elgin?

This will never be a workhorse, most of my work is in wood- I make acoustic guitars and use these machines for tooling and parts in support of that. I do appreciate the original details where it is realistic to keep them up but try to be pragmatic about where to draw the line between collecting and using. Since I already have a small horizontal with some upgraded features (BB head, universal table) this one does sort of fall closer to the collecting line and might warrant a bit more attention to keeping things original. Knowing me, everything I want to do on it will take forever so there is plenty of time to waffle.

Thanks again,
Burton
 
Hardinge Cataract miller.

Burton,
First, I'm sorry for the trouble in Boston. I hope everyone is coping well.

A few years ago I bought the identical miller and it came with 2 tables. I sold the mill later but kept the table. If you are interested let me know. It is near perfect!
Charles
 
Charles,

Thanks for your concern. Everyone within my circle is safe but we are all feeling for those who were injured. I was about sick for most of yesterday thinking about it-

And thank you for your offer as well! I would be very interested in the table. I'll send you a pm about that.

Burton
 
Hi folks,

I was the one who picked up that spare vise on eBay. I have a BBV2, am 90% done with a BB4 restoration - huge thanks to Larry V ! (which the new vise will go onto), have a spare BB4 waiting to be restored, and have recently overextended myself even further and will pick up one of these Cataract mills in about two weeks. I also have a spare BB4 head/knee, minus base, saddle and table, so if anyone ends up making new tables, or has an orphaned saddle, I'd like to stand in line for one of them, although I'll probably need the rest of the year to replenish the piggy bank. FYI, there's a thread by todafi, "Hardinge BB4" who has just made his own table from scratch (or is still doing so).

I will be a little while before I can properly restore my upcoming Cataract mill (due to other projects, time and $), but I look forward to following this thread and following in the footsteps of those that have gone before me !
 








 
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