another odd old lathe to ID
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  1. #1
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    Default another odd old lathe to ID


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    Please obtain and attach photos when posting links to craigslist, ebay items. It makes the thread more useful in future after the listing expires.

    Thanks, mod

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Menke View Post
    Please obtain and attach photos when posting links to craigslist, ebay items. It makes the thread more useful in future after the listing expires.

    Thanks, mod
    Cleveland, OH area



    "Metal lathe - $450 (lorain county)

    Metal lathe
    All original 95% brass gears,collet in working condition"

    Larry

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    A lot about the looks of it reminds me of one I found a while ago. Had a very similar chuck, and it turned out to be a specialty lathe used for repairing valve parts, the type of valves used for steam or water.

    Steve.

    Sent from my SM-J737P using Tapatalk

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    The chuck is an old Whiton (USA). Here is an 1896 catalog page from a reprint of one of Lukin's books that had a Britannia (England) lathe catalog in the back. The prices are in shillings. The 5" chuck with one set of jaws at 32s would be about 209 pounds ($256) now.

    The chucks could be fitted to any suitable size lathe, so they do not help identify the lathe itself.

    I was interested to see that the chucks were sold with one set of "lathe jaws" (as pictured), but could also be bought with both the "lathe jaws" and a set of "drill jaws."

    Larry

    dsc00110.jpg dsc00109.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevewatr View Post
    A lot about the looks of it reminds me of one I found a while ago. Had a very similar chuck, and it turned out to be a specialty lathe used for repairing valve parts, the type of valves used for steam or water.

    Steve.

    Sent from my SM-J737P using Tapatalk
    Would that explain the multiple V ways, as mounted fixtures wouldn't mar the main ones?

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    My first thought was that it may have been a school built lathe.
    I may have posted a link to this in another thread before but I remembered seeing an article about the Cleveland Technical School before here .
    Canadian machinery and metalworking
    There may be no connection even if it is now in the Cleveland area but I know some schools did build machine tools in some of their classes and many of them have no names cast into them .
    Regards,
    Jim

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    I would guess it as a "toolroom" lathe.

    The Houghton lathe of previous discussion (and update over at the OWWM site) would be one of these. Joseph Houghton lathe - Old Woodworking Machines

    The Ames-Chicopee lathe of my ownership x2 and on Tony's Web site would be another. Ames of Chicopee Lathe

    A smallish bench lathe ca. 1870 of unknown maker which showed up in Auburn, NH last year and which I thought was a Blaisdell creation another. Early lathe on craigslist (was I really need to stop looking at Craigslist)

    The original intent of these lathes was in the toolmaking period before "relieving" tools for lathes or grinding machines became the superior tool making convention. A tap would be made and "hand relieved" using a file for tooth clearance.

    A toolmaker's lathe is characterized by NO feed rod - rather feed is done only by the lead screw. The lathe usually lists on its thread plate ALL the gear combinations for the threads from say 2 to 40, and possibly some half-threads (i.e. 11-1/2)

    A toolmakers lathe typically has a cross side with MANY places to put a tool post or cord powered millers or grinding heads. Rise & fall would be unusual in a toolmaker's lathe as PRECISION and rigid tool holding would be paramount. There would be no "nursing along" a cut if a cut went afoul, the stock would be thrown out and a new cut/stock with a fresh tool used instead.

    Later technology of "relieving tools" (either single point or grinding) would eventually take the place of toolmaker's lathes in tap and die production - but for "one-offs" of special taps and possibly dies, a toolmaker's lathe of the single point ilk might suffice for a single tap/single use and survive a bit longer.

    Someone here mentioned this a possibility as a school project. This may be true as the styling of lathe parts making up this lathe is a little late for the toolmaker tradition - rather a traditional toolmaker may have been teaching a class of apprentice toolmakers the tradition by building a toolmaker's lathe - and what better lathe to demonstrate than something formerly of use to a toolmaker?

    Given the very "Barnes Velocipede Lathe" looking head stock caps I would guess this one from the Rockford IL area, and possibly in the 1880s which would agree with a seasoned teacher of traditional tool making and a styling location. Someone mentioned Cleveland? While other aspects (the four ways) recall to central New England tool tradition.

    Since it is later and almost out the "tool making tradition" era, it may have been made simply to thread nuts & bolts between centers - and the originator may have only had that in mind. No thread dial to "catch" the thread however, which makes for laborious threading.

    Dunno though. A lot of speculation in this reply. The use of a compound slide would put it later - although compound slides were used way back into the start of the Stark era in the 1860s - and before. It was only after the turn of the 20th century and high speed tooling when compound slides and thread dials became more generally applied to lathes for threading at 29 degrees.

    Joe in NH

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    The chuck is an old Whiton (USA). Here is an 1896 catalog page from a reprint of one of Lukin's books that had a Britannia (England) lathe catalog in the back. The prices are in shillings. The 5" chuck with one set of jaws at 32s would be about 209 pounds ($256) now.

    The chucks could be fitted to any suitable size lathe, so they do not help identify the lathe itself.

    I was interested to see that the chucks were sold with one set of "lathe jaws" (as pictured), but could also be bought with both the "lathe jaws" and a set of "drill jaws."

    Larry

    dsc00110.jpg dsc00109.jpg
    I"m in agreement. I went back and looked at the valve lathe, and it's quite different from the lathe shown. The valve lathe doesn't have a carriage, since it was only made for facing or "dressing" valve seats. The only thing it shared with this lathe is a similar chuck.

    Steve.

    Sent from my SM-J737P using Tapatalk

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    The tool holder is quite unique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
    The tool holder is quite unique.
    Also a bit below center line.

    -Ron

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    It sure appears that way. I thought it may be the perspective but there is that wide shim. That tool holder may be the top part of a unit which has a rocker in its base. That way, the two tightening bolts set the angle.

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    That's known as a Clog Heel toolpost

    Look down this page CAV Lathe Page 2

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    Maybe the OP's lathe is English?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
    Maybe the OP's lathe is English?
    Generally speaking, NOT with those 4 prismatic guideways, ………….if it's NOT American I'd be thinking more German - or at least western European.

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    Looks like a EA Adams Providence R.I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Clark View Post
    Looks like a EA Adams Providence R.I.
    What brings you to that thought?

    E.A.Adams Lathe

    Joe in NH

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    The old lathes I have worked on all used square head bolts and nuts. I noticed the use of hex head bolts on this lathe. When did hex head bolts become common and what if anything do they tell us about the date of this lathe - assuming they are original. Was the use of hex head bolts and nuts simultaneous for USA and Europe?

    Similarly - lots of brass on this lathe. What does that tell us?

    Being reasonable, what would you expect to pay for it?


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