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Antique Cincinnati Tool Grinder Info?

M.B. Naegle

Diamond
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
We inherited an old sucker in a shop merger that had been hacked and beaten to pieces, but after pulling off the obviously non-original parts (machine had been heavily modified to do a job it really wasn't ment to) I think I figured out what it is!:)
It looks to be a very old Cincinnati #2 Tool and Cutter Grinder. I haven't found the original tooling but the bed and movements seem to match up. It dosn't have any tags other than the door has the old Cincinnati machinery co. info cast into it. It looks like it was originally designed to run off a gang-drive. It has more of a pedistle type build than the box/table build to the old #2's.
I'm hoping to at the very least find a photo of what this machine looked like originaly (google hasn't helped) so I can see what's parts will have to be fabricated. Best-case-senario, I'd like to put it back operable condition, set it up with a better drive unit, and put it back to work in our shop.

Sorry I don't have pictures right now. Hopefully I can put some up in a couple weeks but till then... Does this unit ring any bells for anyone?:confused:
 
"It looks like it was originally designed to run off a gang-drive"

Do you mean an over head line shaft?

It sounds like a No. 1 1/2. I think I attached a picture, does it look like this -

If this is it, I have a manual/book that Cinncinnati original published.

Vince
 

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If it's the pedestal style like mine and Vince's, I have a nicely scanned manual PDF I can post later this morning. (Along with credit to whoever scanned it in the first place...)

On edit...
It came from Metalworking dropbox:
Metalworking Drop Box
It's on the referenced page...
The original file name is: Cincinnati_No_1_T-C_Grinder_1901.pdf

Too large (and redundant) to post here.

Chip
 
Last edited:
"It looks like it was originally designed to run off a gang-drive"

Do you mean an over head line shaft?

It sounds like a No. 1 1/2. I think I attached a picture, does it look like this -

If this is it, I have a manual/book that Cinncinnati original published.

Vince

Oooo! That's darn near the one. The head looks like it might be a bit different but it's hard to tell. It's close enough!:) And yes, an over head shaft is what I thought it ran on. It dosn't look like there's any place for anything else to bolt onto other than it does have the two slots in the back like in your picture.
 
M.B.,

There is someone out there on the net that has posted a copy of the manual to one of the older Cincinnati T & C grinder that has the belt drive, motor in the base, pulley on the grinding head.

try this link,

http://users.beagle.com.au/lathefan/#2 TC grinder001.pdf

Worst comes to worst, I'll be glad to come over and help you sort out the tooling for your grinder!;)

Ken S.
The machine in the manual's a different generation/configuration than mine. I might take you up on your offer but I'm still sorting through our scrap-tooling pile. I think I passed up some "indexers" that would have been the pieces I was looking for.
 
Now this next question I think I already know the answer to, but are there any places I can get parts for this thing short of buying another unit to scrapout?
 
"Now this next question I think I already know the answer to, but are there any places I can get parts for this thing short of buying another unit to scrapout? "

That's funny. I would go with zero chance. The time period for this machine is around 1915.

Below is the manual for the generation before the one I have, and yours.

http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/Cincinnati_No_1_T-C_Grinder_1901.pdf

I can not find a pdf of the one I have. I think my copy might be an actually book. If no one has a pdf, I'll scan it, but it will take some time.

Most of the parts are pretty simple to remake. The guy I bought mine from mounted a motor to the top where the fingers should be mounted. It's not a bad machine if the price is right. I had problems getting the end play out of the spindle and keeping the oil of the belt.

Vince
 
"Now this next question I think I already know the answer to, but are there any places I can get parts for this thing short of buying another unit to scrapout? "

That's funny. I would go with zero chance. The time period for this machine is around 1915.

Below is the manual for the generation before the one I have, and yours.

http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/Cincinnati_No_1_T-C_Grinder_1901.pdf

I can not find a pdf of the one I have. I think my copy might be an actually book. If no one has a pdf, I'll scan it, but it will take some time.

Most of the parts are pretty simple to remake. The guy I bought mine from mounted a motor to the top where the fingers should be mounted. It's not a bad machine if the price is right. I had problems getting the end play out of the spindle and keeping the oil of the belt.

Vince
The machine in your book's the one!

The main area's I'll have to do some design and fabrication are the motor mount and the Y axis movement. Nothing's left of The movement mechanism other than a flange on the casting for the ballcrank to go against. One of the wedge blocks on the bottom of the bed's broken in half but that should be a simple part to make. There are also some broken teeth on the Z movement cylender but I think we can weld them up and remachine them. We're also missing one of the end covers on the bed. I'd like to see if I can recast it paterned off the other side... but we'll see.
All in all this is definantly one of those projects that'll take a year or two to complete cause we're always knee-deep in work and we're holding out with our current sharpeners. Someday this little beast will live again!
 
A picture of the machine, particularly the head, might help. Are you certain this is/was a T&C grinder and not a OD grinder? Model number anywhere on it?
Who knows? From what's been posted on here I'm almost certain it is now. The only tag on the machine was a little aluminum one on the base that just reads "213". I figure it's either a serial number or a company inventory number. That and the Cincinnati Machine co. info on the door is all the text info I've got on it. Sorry, no pictures yet but I will as soon as I can get them up!
 
I've got pictures! (sorry for the wait) I never got pictures of the machine before I started working on it (you can take my word though, it was bad) I haven't remade any parts yet. Just cleaned and painted what's there.
100_1155.jpg

Overall view. The bed and head arn't positioned correctly.
100_1157.jpg

The Head. I'll have to fabricate a grindstone holder for the one side.
100_1158.jpg

Side view of bed assembly. Not that the Y movement lead screw and related parts are gone. Shouldn't be too hard to make.
100_1159.jpg

Top view of bed. Missing right side endpiece. When we got the machine they had this nasty bolt-n-hotroll plate assembly on the front of the bed to give Y movement of about 2 inches. That was one of the first things to go.
100_1156.jpg

Other side view of overall machine.
 
Ok, so We've confirmed that this unit is a Universal Tool and Cutter Grinder. The Manual's great! I'm in shock n' awe at the range of tools these things can work on. If I can get this unit restored and the tooling replaced, It'll be a great addition to our fleet. Can anyone get me a close-up picture of the missing Y movement parts on the bed? The manual gives enough info on the tooling that If I can't find the jigs, I'm confident we can make them.
 
I posted a picture in the metalworking drop box -

Metalworking Drop Box

Though it does not show up yet, and more importantly, it does not show what you need.

If it is like the no. 1 1/2 that I have, then the crank handle is on the back side. The nut is attached to the table by the two screws shown in your picture. And there is telescoping tube over the lead screw to keep grinding grit out.

In machine tool construction there are some standards that are used that most people take for granted. One of them is if you turn a handle clock-wise, the table, or slide, or whatever, is moved away from you. On my grinder, it was backwards for the y-axis. I can not tell you the number of times that I crammed the work into the wheel while thinking I was moving it away. You need to pick the right thread direction very carefully. I WOULD NOT pick one over the other because one is available or cheaper. If I still used the grinder, I would have replaced the lead screw.

Good luck,

Vince
 
Update!
Got the motor mount figured out. Sorry it's just clamped together in the picture. I like it cause it's compact, requires no modification to the machine, and it incoporates a 2 speed step pully set. Not sure when I'd need two speeds in tooling grinding but had the pullys so figured, why not. It might come in handy with the oddball set-ups.
TG4.jpg

Found a nice motor too. It's old but so is the machine so it'll fit in nice. It's 3phase 1725 rpm 1/2 hp General Electric. I like it particularly cause it has a sealed case. Good for a grinder.
TGmotor1.jpg
TGmotor2.jpg
 
Something to be proud of, great utility!

Update!
Got the motor mount figured out. Sorry it's just clamped together in the picture. I like it cause it's compact, requires no modification to the machine, and it incoporates a 2 speed step pully set. Not sure when I'd need two speeds in tooling grinding but had the pullys so figured, why not. It might come in handy with the oddball set-ups.
Why M.B, it's so you can optimize the wheel speed to the larger of the 2 pulleys, so that when you turn and thread that I.D. grinder extention with collet nose for mounted stones, you can change to the higher speed, (smaller pulley) that the mounted stone will do it's best work with. You're a genius and just didn't know it!:)

Now please, (not necessarily you M.B. this may interest others) don't say that making a collet extension to screw onto that spindle thread would be too hard.:D Turn, bore and thread a small bar to fit the spindle thread, the other end bored and honed, (all, 'cept maybe the honing in the same set-up for concentricity) for a slight interference fit to the collet holder shank. Collet holder in freezer, new shaft warmed up with a propane torch and quick, jam them together. Concentricity is important for balance at high speed but won't help the accuracy of the grind, your dressing stone fixes that, it's happy to dress a cam so no, it won't require some high falutin' master machinist and a clean room but wait, is that one of those rare, early 50,000RPM spindles?;)

Looks like a great addition to your shop.

Keep those photos comin' in.

Bob
 

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M.B. wrote:
"...are there any places I can get parts for this thing short of buying another unit to scrapout?"

Wouldn't you know I'd run across some parts for one of these last week while checking out a different item for sale... and since I have one of these, too, I was shocked to see them in the large junk pile at the shop I visited. However, they are parts that you don't need: Base, part of table (no end caps), broken head. The old man said they scavenged the parts to make something else. I asked specifically about the y-adjustment mechanism, but that and the dovetail sub-table and column were what they were after.

However, I can take some pics for you of the y-adjustment mechanism on mine. It's basically an acme thread screw with a crank handle that engages a nut that is fastened to where the two capscrews hang down in your side photo. If I were fabricating from new, I'd be tempted to see if I could arrange things to be operated from the "front" of the machine. As it stands now, you basically have to run all the way around it to run it.

Chip

PS... Seeing how the head of the found machine had broken, I'd be a little hesitant to hang a bunch of weight off the side like that, just on those slots. My motor retrofit is up top, with a screw for belt tension. Hate to see something bad happen...
 
M.B. wrote:
"...are there any places I can get parts for this thing short of buying another unit to scrapout?"

Wouldn't you know I'd run across some parts for one of these last week while checking out a different item for sale... and since I have one of these, too, I was shocked to see them in the large junk pile at the shop I visited. However, they are parts that you don't need: Base, part of table (no end caps), broken head. The old man said they scavenged the parts to make something else. I asked specifically about the y-adjustment mechanism, but that and the dovetail sub-table and column were what they were after.

However, I can take some pics for you of the y-adjustment mechanism on mine. It's basically an acme thread screw with a crank handle that engages a nut that is fastened to where the two capscrews hang down in your side photo. If I were fabricating from new, I'd be tempted to see if I could arrange things to be operated from the "front" of the machine. As it stands now, you basically have to run all the way around it to run it.

Chip

PS... Seeing how the head of the found machine had broken, I'd be a little hesitant to hang a bunch of weight off the side like that, just on those slots. My motor retrofit is up top, with a screw for belt tension. Hate to see something bad happen...
Ah, man. :bawling: Well I hope they get good use out of the parts. There are some other parts I'll need to make or repair though. Did they use the table a well? The brass gear rack under the table that gives x movement is one part I need. Mines good except for the last 1" on one side that's totally stripped out.
How is the head broken? Mine has a corner sawed off which I'll have to weld back on if I'm to use some of the work guides.
Also, I need any and all tooling! I've got nothin and will have to fabricate all of it or find similar pieces (Cincinatti #2 grinder, ect.)

Good call on the casting brake possibity. I'll have to figure up some kind of brace. Worst comes to worst, I can just stick a peg-leg in the back like the old Logan lathes had. I'm alittle worried about it interfeering with the cabinet door though. Mabey I can just route two little legs from either corner down to the top of the base instead....

With the Y adjustment screw, I was thinking the same thing. It would be nice to make a plate for the front of the machine with the crank on one side and the power switch on the other. I have to admit though, working on this unit's like having an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other. I'm constantly having to establish how much to 'restore' the machine and how much to 'retrofit' it. If I do keep the crank in the back, I'm putting a nice handwheel on it instead of a ballcrank and reversing which side the dial would read from. Still wouldn't be as nice as having it on the front.

Pictures would be awsome! Feel free to post or message them. I apreciate the imput!:)
 








 
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