Antique dovetail bed lathe in Emmett, ID, South Bend in Star, ID.

F & J Barnes Co. Needs some TLC. Not too far from me. I'm not interested because it doesn't have a QCGB, ad says it needs a gear made, and I have no room for more lathes. The dovetail bed is unusual for a lathe of this age.

lathe f j barnes

There's also a 9" South Bend model A in Star. Has QCGB and V belt drive. Going by the spring plunger reverse, large dials, plates held with pop rivets I'd assume 1968 or later, possibly Amsted produced but the top of the gearbox plate is covered with dirt and the pic is fuzzy and poorly lit. This one would tempt me but, no more room!

Metal lathe

The Barnes may have two separate lead screws, each moving the carriage a different direction. The pedal power one that we have has.

Herb Kephart

Herb in Delco said:

The Barnes may have two separate lead screws, each moving the carriage a different direction. The pedal power one that we have has.

Herb Kephart

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That would be interesting to see.

Some years ago I saw an old lathe on an online auction with dual leadscrews, one on the front and one on the back. They were geared together at the headstock end. Great way to ensure the saddle can't twist. I was going to save the pics but the auction site was one that the instant the sales closed would delete the listings.

This lathe a WF&John Barnes No. 4-1/2 which has extensive write up online. One the best spots is Tony's Lathe Site at http://www.lathes.co.uk/barnes/page2.html

A quick snippet

A design used until the 1920s, the Barnes twin-leadscrew lathe was an unusual creation, having several features which flew both in the face of accepted practice and common sense. The idea of using two leadscrews to provide a quick method of reversing the feed to the carriage was not a Barnes invention, but they were one of very few manufacturers to incorporate the idea into a modestly-priced lathe. The drive was very simple; a gear on the end of each (identical) leadscrew meshed together so as to cause each to revolve in the opposite direction. A block, fastened to the apron, contained two clasp nuts under the control of one lever; by simply moving the lever up and down the direction of travel of the carriage could be instantly started, stopped or reversed

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His pricing for this at $300 I would consider "average" - if it has a lot of tooling, it may be worth it.

Still, that broken traverse handle gear might be a deal killer. I paid about half that for a Barnes 4-1/2 with a similar but not fatal failing. It became parts to assemble a complete Barnes 4-1/2.

Joe in NH

The Barnes is certainly an interesting design. Looks like many of its features were made both to avoid patent infringement and to have new and patentable design.

#4-1/2 Barnes lathe

The #4-1/2 Barnes lathe was introduced in 1885 and the only major design change was guards for back gears in the teens. They were designed as an inexpensive foot or line shaft powered machine, with cast iron bearings. Not designed for high speed spindle speeds.

I'm not very knowledgeable about the various SB models, but feel for a user lathe, you would be happier with a SB, over the Barnes lathe.

I may have a reproduction compound gear for the apron, hope to get back into Barnes parts next week.

Ray

I'd like to see that Barnes restored, but shipping it some long distance from Idaho would cost a person $$$$. Rent a Penske truck for x amount of time. Last I checked they were the only outfit in the US that has unlimited miles on their truck rentals.

Make a vacation out of it, come to wunnerful E-dah-how, buy a couple of old lathes...

Buying & Restoring a Barnes is a slippery slope!!!

Have to exercise self-restraint or you will have many Barnes machines.

The #4-1/2 with legs removed will fit in most cars. I hauled a #5, which has a longer bed, 900 miles in a rented Toyota Corolla.

Ray

timekiller said:

Have to exercise self-restraint or you will have many Barnes machines.

The #4-1/2 with legs removed will fit in most cars. I hauled a #5, which has a longer bed, 900 miles in a rented Toyota Corolla.

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In fact, if you have a Radio Flyer red wagon, you could probably use that. Might be a long trip, however.

One strong person can uncomfortably pick up both ends of a Barnes 4-1/2 minus the legs and carry it carefully to a landing spot. Two people is safer.

The legs can be carried two at a time, one in each hand.

Check to see that it comes with a full set of gears. There should be 12, or possibly 13 (to get the elusive 27tpi for pipe thread) in total. The large one (88 teeth) used normally on the lead screw is the one most commonly found broken (by those who carry the lathe NOT carefully) and the most difficult to find intact on Ebay or elsewhere. The others are fairly common, CAN be bought at Boston Gear (DP16) but bring yer wallet, and most easily found on Ebay (and easily confused with Barnes No. 5 gears which are DP14 and don't fit - check your OD diameter and tooth count.)

Barnes 4-1/2 is fortunate in that tapers in spindle and tailstock are both Morse Taper 1 which makes tooling readily available, albeit a bit small. But proportionate for this size lathe.

One of the nice features of the Barnes lathes are the center mounted revolving cross slide - doing it this way allows one to use the lathe to cut "spheres." One has to be mindful of placement of the carriage for this action.

They're not a bad lathe. The reputation of being a "farmer's lathe" and always being found in a chicken coop and somehow something less than a "real" lathe is somewhat undeserved.

Said even though I found my Barnes 5 in a chicken coop.

You have a motor drive available on this one and I can verify that motor drive is preferred for a "user lathe." Pedaling somehow just doesn't cut it for any amount of stock removal. (which is where I'm at now with my Barnes 5.)

As Ed Battison (Founder/Director of the American Precision Museum) said to me on my gloat to him on having found a nearly complete Barnes 5 lathe with velocipede drive:

"Now you'll find out the true meaning and value of "keen" tooling."

Joe in NH

One "not so nice" feature of the velocipede drive is that if you want the spindle to turn the conventional direction you have to peddle backwards. Everything that you have ever peddled worked the same--from your first tricycle on up. You pushed down on the peddle that is front of the axle. Reversed on the Barnes, it doesn't sound like a problem until you try it. Your leg muscles just aren't programed to work that way--and a little peddling creates a maximum of muscle distress.
Like the first time you try to taxi an airplane--except that there it's your brain that causes the problem.

Herb

You have a motor drive available on this one and I can verify that motor drive is preferred for a "user lathe.

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Bet that is why gear in apron is missing. No safeties designed into drive train.

I'm a big Barnes fan, however for a regular user lathe can't recommend to inexperienced users as Barnes are not forgiving.

For educational purposes a Barnes is a great tool, but delicate.

Ray