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Thread: Antique Planer

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    Default Antique Planer

    I have an Ames Mfg. Co. metal planer. Does anyone know about this machine.

    I am attaching pictures

    Richardantique-machines-005.jpg

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    What is the machine behind the planer on the left?

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    Dont know about the planer. Seems they were in business from 1834 to 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
    What is the machine behind the planer on the left?
    Looks like a B&S screw machine.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by emccorp View Post
    I have an Ames Mfg. Co. metal planer. Does anyone know about this machine.
    What would you like to know?

    Ames Mfg. Co. of Chicopee, Mass., quit building machine tools around 1890.
    Your planer, which looks to be a five foot stroke one, was built around the early 1880's.
    Attached is an illustration of an Ames planer from 1875.
    Also pictures of two other Ames planers of your vintage.
    I also have a 5' Ames around your vintage, but maybe a little earlier.
    I don't have any pictures of mine right now.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ames-1875-1-2-.jpg   ames-planer-1.jpg   ames-planer-3.jpg   ames-planer-2.jpg   ames-planer-8a.jpg  


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    It is a #00 3/8" capacity screw machine. Circa 1927 I actually ran a production job on it once before tearing it down to clean and paint it. If you know someone who would want this machine i would appreciate it. I have an original [email protected] manual for this.
    Richard

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    Thanks for your reply and the pictures. You told me more than i knew. The planer in the pictures is the same as mine. I have owned it for thirty years and have never hooked it up. Is yours running?. If so what did you use as a clutch. Any idea of the value of such a machine?. Do not know if i want to sell or not. The machine is in good shape but slide ways worn.

    Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by emccorp View Post
    I have owned it for thirty years and have never hooked it up. Is yours running?. If so what did you use as a clutch. Any idea of the value of such a machine?.

    Richard
    I have owned mine for about the same time, maybe 35 years.
    It is under power, but I have it in storage right now.
    If by "clutch" you mean overhead drive, then it is not unlike the drive on this Ames.
    Value is a subjective one. What is the condition, what make is the machine, what is someone willing to pay for it.
    How old is it, how collectable is it.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ames-planer-8a_li.jpg  

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    Thanks again for your reply. I was only curious as to potential value. I am not wanting to sell at this time.
    I am going to try to set this up to run when i have enough time. I do not have the original line shaft drive parts, but have enough
    parts similar to do a set up. By clutch, i know some shops used a cone clutch do disengage individual machines from the line shaft.
    Some used a belt shifter type clutch on the line shaft to disengage the machine. Using an electric motor to drive an overhead shaft for this machine only i would want to disengage the drive belt without shutting down the motor.
    Thanks again.
    Richard

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    Given the date range and Rob's pix, I would say your planer is a "two belt" drive.

    One belt moves the table "forward" for the cut.

    The other belt moves the table "backward" for the return.

    When the belts are on their respective "idler" pulleys (the two outer sheaves on three pulleys) the belts just turn the pulleys but don't drive anything. This would be your "neutral" position.

    Move the table to one end or the other and it trips a lever which moves one of the belts to the center pulley - this is the drive - could be forward, oould be return depending on which end you pushed the table. A hand lever is provided to bypass the normal trip/reverse and allow you to power the table to one end to get it started. And, you can bypass the trip to "stop" the table motion.

    The two belts are driven by a LONG overhead line shaft pulley. Both belts on one pulley, one crossed (twisted) to make a reverse and the other straight for straight drive. Many users set the belts such that "drive" for cut is done with the crossed belt - because crossed belts contact more of the pulleys and slip less under greater load of the cut.

    This planer drive MIGHT be on the main lineshaft, but that requires the planer be "alive" all the time. Maybe not moving but certainly the belt(s) moving. More commonly planer drive was done with a separate overhead jack-shaft, and tight & loose pulleys driven from the main shaft. Thus the jack-shaft could be "turned off" for personnel safety and maintenance of the planer.

    Many makers of "3 pulley" planers used 2 different pulleys for the drive. A small 2x pulley and a large 2x pulley and a slight belt misalignment allowed one to have a planer that did the cut "slow" and a quick-return, a desirable feature for production.

    Some later planers of this ilk "separated" the forward and reverse drives into two PAIRS of pulleys. (four total two on each side of the machine instead of the earlier 3 next to each other on one side) Rob's woodcut may show this. Others use FIVE drive pulleys on the planer drive and two belts to get to the same end. Rob's photo 5 may show this. Drive did vary depending on the style and fad in vogue at the time.

    Anyway, hope this helps. To get more information on planer drives, check out Joshua Rose's compendium "Modern Machine Shop Practice." Printed originally in 1879 and updated periodically over the next 40 years. Mr. Rose made a good living with his book and the fractional portfolios - training and explaining to the generation's machinists and machine designers. See Modern machine-shop practice; operation, construction, and principles of shop machinery, steam engines, and electrical machinery : Rose, Joshua : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    Joe in NH

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    Quote Originally Posted by emccorp View Post
    Using an electric motor to drive an overhead shaft for this machine only i would want to disengage the drive belt without shutting down the motor.
    Thanks again.
    Richard
    With the shifting lever on the planer, as Joe has said, this would stop the planer table from moving.
    The electric motor and belt would keep running.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ames-planer-8a_li.jpg  

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    I have a smaller "Federal". It works the same way but the previous owner made a jack shaft above it. The shaft has its own bearings and can be driven at any motor angle by a "V" belt. The belt shift works the same as the flat belt pulleys are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in NH View Post
    Given the date range and Rob's pix, I would say your planer is a "two belt" drive.
    <snip>
    Joe in NH
    Here's an old thread about the Ames planer shown in a couple of Rob's photos. It was owned back then by Archie Cheda and he and Joe talk about the drive system (starting at post #8), which is indeed a "two belt" drive.

    Ames Chicopee Planer in Calif

    Irby

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    If anyone has a Planer like this or similar that they would be interested in parting with please let me know. Thanks.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by wncjohn View Post
    If anyone has a Planer like this or similar that they would be interested in parting with please let me know. Thanks.

    John
    I know of a "crank planer" which unfortunately for you is in California. However, the ask on this is SO reasonable you could afford to have it shipped from the LC to the RC and still be ahead value-wise.

    Crank planers can be termed the "little cousins" to a full bull gear planer. Essentially a substitute for a shaper the stroke on these is probably no greater than 30" and perhaps no more than 18" between the uprights. They were very common in the day for preparing gun parts, particularly frames. Basically outmoded by the milling machine and to lesser degree the shaper.

    This one a honey, the full stylistic equal of the OP Ames Chicopee, if not a bit "better."

    As was said to me "Anyone, even a woodworker can machine circles on a lathe - but it takes a TRUE machinist to be able to machine the 'flats.'" (Ed Battison)

    Planar is a relative term when it comes to reality.

    Joe in NH

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    Thanks Joe,
    Could you please PM me on this.

    John

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    Look in your in-box.

    Joe in NH

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    Thanks for your reply. This is helpful information. You are right in that the planer has three pulleys with the center

    one being the drive pulley. All the pulleys are the same diameter. I was going to use a line shaft with one pulley larger for the quick return motion. I have the book by joshua rose. I will look at this book again. The belt shifter on the machine operated by the table trips might allow both belts to be on the idler pulleys if adjusted properly and operated by hand. Just playing with it, this might nor be possible.
    This is why i thought a clutch on the line shaft may be necessary. Thanks Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by emccorp View Post
    I was going to use a line shaft with one pulley larger for the quick return motion. The belt shifter on the machine operated by the table trips might allow both belts to be on the idler pulleys if adjusted properly and operated by hand. Just playing with it, this might nor be possible.
    That is how my drive is set up.

    It is quite easy to use the belt shifting lever on the machine to stop the table. It is made to do this.
    This is how they operated the planer when it was run by the line shaft.

    Rob

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    I haven't had any luck with two pulley sizes above a belt shifter where both belts drive one pulley, because their position overhead is in the same spot--which is right where the two pulleys meet. I hope I said that right. In other words, where there are three pulleys below, the middle being the drive and the two outside pulleys being the idlers, they share the same drive position above. You can't have two sized pulleys driving the same pulley below.

    Of course, just because I haven't been able to make it work doesn't mean it's not possible. Could be my little brain getting in the way. Could you show a picture of that, Robert, if yours is running that way? Or better yet, a video? Maybe I just plain misunderstood you too. Happens.

    My planer's drive pulleys are the same size, and the quick return is built into the gearing. Check your Ames over, Emccorp, it might be that way too.

    One thing about a belt shifting planer (and most any belt shifter) is that you can't change the speed very much or the levers don't work. That's because the system relies on momentum--just the right amount of momentum--for it to carry it through the shifting process. If it's too slow, it won't have enough momentum to return, and if it's too fast, it'll push the stop before it has a chance to change direction. That happened when I set up my planer, and I had to slow it down; and I had to speed up my surface grinder because it got caught in the middle. You can come close to finding the speed by figuring how much horsepower it should need, then plug that it into the following formula:

    HP = FPS ÷ 600 x belt width in inches. For an overhead belt, like your planer, divide that in two. (That's the rule of thumb in the old books.) You know your pulley size and width, and if you know what horse power it'll take, you can find the speed it should run. I've gotten there that way.

    Hope this helped.

    Joel


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