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Thread: Antique Planer

  1. #21
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    My planer has two different sized pulleys driving a common pulley. They are however mounted on different shafts, the shaft driving the return stroke is running inside the shaft driving the cutting stroke. The return stroke can always be at maximum speed, cutting speed can be varied with the stepped pulley. Here's a(poor quality) video:
    YouTube
    I have the machine just set up, it's driven by an E-motor but will be in time also hooked up to the line shaft. The drive pulley on the countershaft has a freewheel clutch so will spin freely when driven by the linshaft. The whole shop is still, and probably will always be, under construction. As soon I can show some
    decent images I will post some more.
    Regards, Jos

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    I think I see that your driven pulley below is twice as wide as the belt, so it's made to be driven from two positions overhead.

    And... your statement that it can be done from two different overhead shafts makes sense for a pulley that's the same width as the belt, because both countershafts' drive pulleys can be in line with it.

    Two ways it can be done. See, I said it was my little brain getting in the way.

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    Thanks for the comments. I looked at the u-tube and it was very helpful. Gives me some ideas as how to hook this machine up.

    Drive pulley is 2" wide, with the idler pulleys 1-1/2" wide.

    Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by emccorp View Post
    Thanks for the comments. I looked at the u-tube and it was very helpful. Gives me some ideas as how to hook this machine up.

    Drive pulley is 2" wide, with the idler pulleys 1-1/2" wide.

    Richard
    Before I alluded to a two belt planer with three pulleys. Making the center pulley wider reduces the angular misalignment between the forward belt/its drive pulley, and the backward belt/its drive pulley.

    Also given a slight crown of the center pulley (common for flat belt pulleys) it increases the chance of the belt staying put where the shifter leaves it.

    I don't remember that Pratt & Whitney No. 1 (1877) was any wider in the center pulley, but it is possible.



    The lowermost part of the pix you catch the top quadrant of the two drive pulleys. The hangers are to the right of this underneath the planer.

    Joe in NH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails pratt-whitney-planer-no.-1.jpg  

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    Thanks for the post. I can see that the overhead pulleys have to be wider than the driven pulley to allow the belt to shift over.
    I did not think about this. I need to source some pulleys somewhere as the ones i have are not wide enough. I do have a counter shaft i can use as well as two hangers. This forum has been very helpful so far. Did any of the planers have way wipers. Mine does not appear to have ever had them. My machine is in very good condition except for the ways. They are very worn and grooved. Lack of oil?
    Chips getting under the ways over time?. The table does move freely though. Gears all in good shape. Cross as well as down feed can be power feed by switching the gear from one shaft to the other. As i move the machine out of where it is now, i will get better pictures posted.
    Thanks
    Richard

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    Actually, given a crown, a single width driver pulley might serve.

    Crowning a pulley causes the belt to seek its largest diameter. That is if the force causing it to move to another path is not too great.

    Again the P&W pix above. Speaking from memory here, the planer (driven) sheaves might have been 1-1/4 inch. The belt was 1" (a center sheave might have been two inches.) The driving pulleys seen on the floor were perhaps 2" - although I bet 1-1/2" might have worked.

    Further apart between driver and driven makes the belts more likely to stay on their pulleys.

    A similar Planer exists at George's Basement. His was No. 8 IIRC. Ptratt & Whitney planer, ca. 1876

    Heh. We spoke on the width of the center sheave. Check out George's



    Joe in NH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat Marshall View Post
    Could you show a picture of that, Robert, if yours is running that way?

    Joel
    Hi Joel,

    I can't get close enough to the planer right now to take good pictures.
    The upper pulleys are wider to factor in the shifting belts.
    Here is the counter shaft from an Ames planer in 1875.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ames-1875-1-2-.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by emccorp View Post
    Did any of the planers have way wipers. Mine does not appear to have ever had them. My machine is in very good condition except for the ways. They are very worn and grooved. Lack of oil?
    Chips getting under the ways over time?.
    Thanks
    Richard
    Early planers did not have wipers. Later more modern ones did.

    Yes to both chips and oil.
    When I run my Ames I keep the ways very clean and free of chips.
    I also keep oiling the ways with way oil as I run it.
    On the ground I have four coffee cans under each way to catch the dripping oil.
    I keep way oil in a clean coffee can, with a lid and a foam brush.
    I use this to oil the ways before starting and while the planer is running.
    You have to keep an eye on the foam brush as the oil starts to deteriorate it over time.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Lang View Post
    Early planers did not have wipers. Later more modern ones did.

    Yes to both chips and oil.
    When I run my Ames I keep the ways very clean and free of chips.
    I also keep oiling the ways with way oil as I run it.
    On the ground I have four coffee cans under each way to catch the dripping oil.
    Funny you say that - I use the stainless Bain Marie type trays under mine for the same reason....

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat Marshall View Post
    I haven't had any luck with two pulley sizes above a belt shifter where both belts drive one pulley, because their position overhead is in the same spot--which is right where the two pulleys meet. I hope I said that right. In other words, where there are three pulleys below, the middle being the drive and the two outside pulleys being the idlers, they share the same drive position above. You can't have two sized pulleys driving the same pulley below. ...
    The center pulley need to be a step pulley, like on the ~1920 Rockford planer at Tuckahoe (click on the picture for a larger version).

    Paolo


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    Rob,

    That Acme has two pulleys down below, not three. Am I seeing it right? It must have some other means of changing direction than two loose and a tight? Just guessing here. Every company reinvented their own wheels.

    Emccorp,

    I'm gonna guess that if the center drive pulley's crowned it's not meant to have two pulleys of different diameters above, because the crown will pull the belt to the center and off the upper pulleys. I'd keep that in mind as you figure this out. Another thing is if the shifter pulls the belts to the center of the drive pulley and not near the edge. My belt shifting Smith and Mills shaper is that way, so it can't have two diameters overhead either, even thought the center pulley is wider than the belt.

    You can make a wide pulley from a pipe. Here's a link to a bunch of pipe for sale on Craigslist here in Michigan. I don't remember where you live though or if this ad's practical for you.

    Pipe cutoffs - farm & garden - by owner - sale

    Shucks. I'd been saving an ad for a 9" wide flat pulley, but the ad's gone now. Well, keep your eyes open and you'll find one if you don't want to make one. Say, what's the diameter of your planer's pulleys anyway?

    Joel

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    The pulleys are 14" dia. They do not appear to be crowned using a straight edge. I live in southern Illinois and own and operate
    a machine shop.

    Richard

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    That Acme has two pulleys down below, not three. Am I seeing it right? It must have some other means of changing direction than two loose and a tight? Just guessing here. Every company reinvented their own wheels.
    About 1878 (plus or minus) planers went into a period where the pulleys were "split" between the operator side and the wall side - operator and the wall side each had their "tight & loose." With each their own direction.

    George's Basement has a picture of a 1900 period planer which Pratt & Whitney developed subsequent to his 1877ish planer which shows Pratt & Whitney following this "style."



    George also relates:

    When you compare the image at left, taken from my copy of the 1900 Pratt & Whitney Descriptive Illustrated Catalog, to the photograph of my planer at the top of this page, you will see that the cross feed and belt shifting mechanisms are quite different. My feeds not only move the saddle, but can alternatively feed the compound downwards at any angle, thanks to some bevel gears buried inside the saddle. There are a couple of hand-filed gears in my planer's mechanism, definitely not originals.
    I'm not sure why the change. May be a way to improve "timing" and reduce squeal?

    As I say, many ways to skin this cat.

    Joe in NH
    Last edited by Joe in NH; 02-20-2020 at 12:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat Marshall View Post
    Rob,

    That Acme has two pulleys down below, not three.

    Joel
    Hi Joel,

    Yes it does. Sorry about the confusion. My point was the two different size upper pulleys.
    Here is a much better illustration from New Haven Mfg.
    Two different size upper pulleys and wider for the shifting belts.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails new-haven-mfg.-1883-1.jpg  

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    As long as it doesn't shift to the center, it'll work. Hadn't thought of that before. Thanks, Rob.

    Emccorp, if you go on Ebay and search for "wooden flat belt pulley" you'll find a couple dozen listed, a few of which would work to drive your planer. Prices are a little high, but if you only need one it's not so bad:

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+pulley&_oac=1

    Wooden pulleys aren't the best, but the nice thing is you can turn them flat or crown them, whichever you need. If you go that route, be sure to go through it and glue it back together as best you can. I've had them come apart before.

    Joel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat Marshall View Post
    As long as it doesn't shift to the center, it'll work. Hadn't thought of that before. Thanks, Rob.

    Wooden pulleys aren't the best, but the nice thing is you can turn them flat or crown them, whichever you need. If you go that route, be sure to go through it and glue it back together as best you can. I've had them come apart before.

    Joel
    There seems to be some confusion about crowned pulleys on these planer drives.
    It depends on the style of drive, but on the three pulley one, as in the New Haven in post #34, there is no crown on the pulleys.
    You rely on the belt shifter to keep the belt in place.

    Wood pulleys sometimes do come apart from the age of the glue.
    The advantage is light weight and they are split for ease of installment.
    I came across an old article where they tested different pulley materials for gripping power and transmission of hp. with a leather belt.
    I think it was in the American Machinist.
    The best was the phenolic paper ones. The next best was wood, then cast iron. The least was pressed steel.

    Rob

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    My planer has a three pulley shifter with one belt, and its pulleys are crowned. Maybe it's weird. I think it helps it to stay in neutral.

    When I set up my dynamo I put a cast iron pulley on it--5 inch diameter, I think it is? It's driven by a 60 inch pulley from straight above, so there's not a great deal of wrap on the lower pulley, and it would slip off up around 20 amps. The pulley had a flaw of some kind--a crack or something--so after a few years I replaced it with a new paper one. WOW! Much better! I don't think I've ever had that paper one slip. So that sure agrees with the test and paper pulleys. If you find that article, Robert, I'd like to read it. Sounds interesting.

    Hope you don't mind if we've gotten a tad off topic, Emccorp.

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    I've been looking good a planer for quite some time. If any become available, I would like to know. I'll travel to pick up a machine.

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    I do not mind straying from the topic. Everyone has informed me about this machine hookup very well. I really appreciate anything said. I am starting to see about the different size drive pulleys now. I would think that if the overhead drive was far enough away from the driven pulleys that the misalignment would be small. Any thought on this?. The belt shifters on the machine would hold the belt in place although there would be wear on the shifter and the belt.

    Richard

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    When there's some side load on the shifter forks the shifter mechanism sometimes get a bit noisy, depending on shifter construction and sort of belt clips used. It can also make the shifter move from position by itself so its needs a good detent.
    Jos


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