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Problem cutting 2 1/8, 5tpi threads:

mel g

Plastic
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
I threaded a steel round, 2 1/8 in diam 5 tpi thread.
(it’s to assist making a new faceplate for my Leblond 13 inch regal)
When I try to thread it into the backing plate of my current 3 jaw chuck , which fits the 2 1/8 5tpi spindle, my threaded round only turns one and a half turns after the male thread catches the female thread, then stops.
What I tried:
the male thread does measure a true 5 tpi.
I measured with thread wires and it’s if anything a little narrower than the original spindle from which I took measurements.
I greased it up , and it’s also clear from the grease , that it enters the one and a half turns only. I see no obvious defects.

Where do I go next?
any advice appreciated
 
yes, and the od of the threaded part of spindle is a few thou larger than the spigot threads i cut.
 
I was fortunate that when I acquired my 13" LeBlond that the previous owner had made an exact copy of the spindle nose and threads. It threads fully into all four of my spindle items---2 faces plates, 3 jaw, and 4 jaw.

I would lend it out of it was of use.
 
What did you use for the thread cutting tool bit ? Did you grind it yourself from a high speed steel blank, or did you use a factory ground threading tool bit ?

Grinding a 60 degree threading tool bit freehand is something many of us have done many times. However, a freehand ground thread cutting tool bit can be off slightly in terms of the profile of the thread it actually cuts. For most work, this little bit of error in thread form will work since the class of fit for the thread being cut may not be all that close. With a freehand ground thread cutting tool bit, it is sometimes necessary to "ease off" the thread being cut by a few thousandths to get things to make up. This easing off of the thread being cut addresses the differences in thread forms from cut thread vs whatever that thread has to make up with. The actual contact of the threads is less than "full flank contact" as a result.

The other issues which could be keeping your "dummy spindle" from making up with female threads in backplates, dog plates, or similar could be burrs or "spring" of the tool holder. A cut thread often has burrs, and these can prevent the cut thread from making up with whatever it has to screw into or onto. Running a fine lathe file over the work while it is turning in the lathe will knock off these burrs which often form at the corners between the flanks and crests of the threads. Spring occurs when the tool holder deflects slightly from the load put on it by the cutting process. Often, when a job is "nearly finished" it not make up and is a bit tight. Despite mike readings and corresponding movement of the cross feed or compound, a "spring cut" the final depth of the thread may be a bit shy of what it needs to be. This is due to the deflection of the tool holder and tool bit. A spring cut is taken by setting the tool bit to the final or last depth of cut and running another pass or two. Often, if a person looks closely at the tool bit, they will see a very fine chip coming off the tool bit's cutting edge. This is the "spring cut". Sometimes, two or three spring cuts are taken, each removing a very small amount of material.

The other question is whether you pulled the toolbit back (backed the tool bit slightly with the compound set at 29 degrees) and infed the cross feed an equal amount. This will cause the tool bit to cut on the RH side of its point, cleaning up the flank of the thread opposite the way the toolbit is travelling.

My hunch is you are most likely dealing with burrs, or possibly needing to take a spring cut or two, since the dummy spindle starts to screw into backplates or similar female threads. Start with running a lathe file (single cut file, long angle) across the crests of the threads while the work is turning in the lathe. A few light strokes with a lathe file are generally all that is needed. Try the fit of the dummy spindle after the filing. If things do not make up, take a spring cut if you still have the job in the lathe. If not, you will need to set the job back up in the lathe, "catch" the thread with the tool bit as we discussed in a previous thread (sorry about the pun) when you asked about that, and take a very light cleanup or scraping cut. A few passes with the tool bit not quite touching the threads, advancing 0.001" each time on the compound until the tool bit just begins to shave the least bit off the work is all we would be looking for.

A slight difference in the profile of the tool bit can cause this sort of problem when cutting a thread for a close fit. Add burrs and "spring" of the tool holder and the result is a thread that will start to make up but seem to bind after a very few threads.
 
Is your carriage actually moving .200" for one exact turn of the chuck? Yep, its easy to set the QC gear box on 5 - but a tooth off on the left end gear train gears can make that 5 TPI unobtainable

Are you using half nuts? Yes, I know - every one knows you have to do that, except for the MULTIPLE lathe owners on this forum that attempt to cut threads using the apron feed clutch
 
Joe michaels: I suspect the defects is as you describe.


The other question is whether you pulled the toolbit back (backed the tool bit slightly with the compound set at 29 degrees) and infed the cross feed an equal amount. This will cause the tool bit to cut on the RH side of its point, cleaning up the flank of the thread opposite the way the toolbit is travelling.


I DID NOT do this and i will try it now

It is a free hand ground HSS bit

Thank you for the advice
 
it does appear to be a true 0.200, since a thread gauge does show 5 per inch(at least by eye)
yes, half nuts, and since its such a short thread, i just reverse the lathe and never disengaged the half nuts
 
lucky, indeed. I appreciate the thought of lending, But i'll need one of my own for future faceplates, too
 
Is your carriage actually moving .200" for one exact turn of the chuck? Yep, its easy to set the QC gear box on 5 - but a tooth off on the left end gear train gears can make that 5 TPI unobtainable

Are you using half nuts? Yes, I know - every one knows you have to do that, except for the MULTIPLE lathe owners on this forum that attempt to cut threads using the apron feed clutch

Are those people similar to the ones that tried to use the half nuts for the apron feed? If so, I resemble that comment.
 
Instead of measuring the pitch, flip the work piece around and press it against the side of the spindle threads. It should nest perfectly.

allan
 
Large ,coarse pitch threaded components jam on very small imperfections when you are only screwing together by hand.I would just oil up the thread and keep working the fit back and forth.......you dont want any kind of lapping compound on the spindle threads.
 
I have had two of the LeBlond trainers both 15" with 2 1/8 - 5 thread on the spindle...I still have one of the two machines..I had no plug gauge at all.. What I had was a dog driver which I bolted a blank to with a large bearing race between the two...This is convenient as one can bore threads in the blank then unscrew dog driver from the spindle, invert, and try the new thread on the spindle...I made every back plate for both machines in this manner..I have three jaw, four jaw, 5c collet chucks, and every back plate was made in the same manner....Ramsay 1:)
 
I'm not sure what model LeBlond lathe I had quite a while ago it was and old flat belt. The threaded spindle was 54mm X 5mm. That is very close to 2-1/8" X 5tpi. Why metric I have no idea!
 
.I had no plug gauge at all.. What I had was a dog driver which I bolted a blank to with a large bearing race between the two...This is convenient as one can bore threads in the blank then unscrew dog driver from the spindle, invert, and try the new thread on the spindle.

I cannot visualize this, and it sounds like a good idea. can you supply more detail, or picture?
 
I'll try an explanation

An assembly - starting with a dog driver (small face plate with slot) that already fits spindle, then a spacer or plate (or bearing race) on that, then the part that does not fit lathe yet - all bolted together as one piece - that can be unscrewed from spindle, flipped around 180 degrees and tried on the spindle nose to see if you are there yet

All the spacer element is for is to have some room for the cutting tool to pass thru the work piece WITHOUT bumping into spindle nose

The bearing race is ideal because it weighs very little and is likely already parallel, etc

.I had no plug gauge at all.. What I had was a dog driver which I bolted a blank to with a large bearing race between the two...This is convenient as one can bore threads in the blank then unscrew dog driver from the spindle, invert, and try the new thread on the spindle.

I cannot visualize this, and it sounds like a good idea. can you supply more detail, or picture?
 
Here is my 15" trainer with an eight inch Bison chuck...I bought this chuck on Ebay and it was rather cheap for being new but it had an L0 back plate which also had thrust fingers which engaged the scroll .. It was a pain to make the back plate from the solid that is for sure...I wonder if there is an old LeBlond anywhere else with such a chuck....

And the bearing race between the blank and the dog driver yes I used the inner race of a ball bearing that was once in the boom point of an American 7260 crawler crane... We lost a bearing in one of the sheaves so I changed bearings in all three sheaves and kept the inner and outer races...They are for all intents and purposes ground parallels...

Always keep old bearing races as you never know when they will come in handy .. Cheers; Ramsay 1:)
 

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