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    Default Barnes drill model #?

    First time poster here. I blast and paint and do all kinds of restoration work. A friend wants this monster repainted. I need to find out what model number it is and ballpark date of manufacture. I have only found 1 photo of a similar unit and itís on display at a British Industry museum. Hopefully thereís a scanned parts diagram somewhere but Iím not holding my breath. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
    Jeff41a8e1c9-386a-4539-ad69-461ad181b7ae.jpg4554fed0-5d3d-42b3-9f85-40c8253ae7df.jpg

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    This is a successor to WF & John Barnes Co. Benjamin F. Barnes was somehow "difficult" with the others of his company and was summarily dismissed. He set up his own drill company in Rockford, and the drill you see above and below are just one of the products of this Barnes successor company.

    See B. F. Barnes Co. - History | VintageMachinery.org for a pocket history.

    See US Patent: 1,�54,268 - Drilling-machine for the 1913 patent.

    See one presently for sale on Ebay. The seller can be contacted - he may have more information. Barnes Drill Press, Well Built Functional Antique, 1913 Patent Date | eBay

    One for sale in Wisconsin on Craigslist.Barnes 2 inch drill press - tools - by owner - sale

    Hope this helps.

    Joe in NH
    Last edited by Joe in NH; 04-04-2018 at 07:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in NH View Post
    This is a successor to WF & John Barnes Co. Benjamin F. Barnes was somehow "difficult" with the others of his company and was summarily dismissed. He set up his own drill company in Rockford, and the drill you see above and below are just one of the products of this Barnes successor company.
    Not a successor to W.F. & John Barnes. A separate company formed by B.F. Barnes. A successor means one who took over the company(W.F. & John Barnes) or succeeded it.
    Lets keep it straight.

    "Benjamin Franklin Barnes was superintendent of W. F. & John Barnes Co. B. Frank Barnes was a brother or cousin of W. Fletcher and John S. Barnes. In 1899, Frank severed connection with his relatives' business and started a new business, B. F. Barnes Co., with a couple of partners, H. C. Marsh and Samuel H. Reck. In 1907 Barnes was forced out of the company, which was renamed to Rockford Drilling Machine Co. B. F. Barnes subsequently formed the Barnes Drill Co."

    I have owned drills by B.F. Barnes, Rockford Drilling Machine Co. and Barnes Drill Co.

    Rob

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    Jeff,
    Good to see another Barnes Drill Co. machine, any chance of some better photos? I can't see much from those tiny images.

    I have attached an advert from 1923 which seems to show a similar machine. Not a very good photo but the best I have. Note the drive comes in from the rear, other models (I presume later models) have the drive input on the LH side.

    barnes-drill-co-advert-am-june-28-1923.jpg

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    Thanks for all the helpful info. From what I can tell the Barnes Drill Iím working on is most similar to the model in the 1923 advert as evidenced by the pillar and rear drive. I removed the motor and electrics, then removed the main body panels and degreased, sandblasted, and epoxy primed. Final color will be a green similar to Powermatic woodworking tools. I shoot automotive single stage paints. I will degrease the rest of the main body then put the panels back on before blasting with recycled crushed glass. The challenge will be to keep any grit from getting into the gears and Babbits. I will definately blow the whole thing out with compressed air several times before reassembly. Iíll only be removing parts that are easily removed to gain access to areas to paint. This machine represents the ingenuity and craftsmanship of the industrial America of old. Iíll post more pics but canít figure out how to make the full size.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 12976a7d-6a61-4633-8a87-04cb45bf00bd.jpg   3c27526e-0577-4b01-8020-c0e25774b435.jpg   b4ff9057-deb5-4dc0-b325-fd46ae9e4720.jpg   20b78669-ec30-4313-a69f-5d69c611dd6e.jpg   05ae2366-5bb3-48c6-9085-01a690451b33.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalRevival View Post
    Final color will be a green similar to Powermatic woodworking tools. I will degrease the rest of the main body then put the panels back on before blasting with recycled crushed glass. The challenge will be to keep any grit from getting into the gears and Babbits. I will definately blow the whole thing out with compressed air several times before reassembly.
    I think a semigloss black would look a lot better than Powermatic green.

    Be very careful with that glass.
    That is something I would not do unless you are taking the drill completely apart and will wash the parts down after in a wash tank.
    I have seen in person the aftermath of glass getting into the bearings and other moving parts.

    Rob

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    Jeff,
    Thanks for the extra photos.It is the first time I have seen inside one of these early models and it looks interesting. For example the "self oiled" feature which looks to be an oil pump sending (recirculating) oil to the bearings and gears.

    The round column is not itself a reliable indication of age - Barnes Drill were still offering the round column as an option (box or round column) in the 1940's, it allowed the table to swung aside and also rotated.

    The attached images show an early model (1912 advert) and also the options of box or round column from a 1940's manual.

    I too am concerned about blasting the main body of the machine - it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion . I am sure you will end up with abrasive in the wrong places...there are no seals on those old machines and blasting with compressed air will simply drive the abrasive in further. Compressed air alone can do a lot of damage to old machine tools, it is notorious for driving swarf and grit into spindle bearings and slideways.

    Besides, media blasting and repainting is out of date - nowadays restorers of old machinery are carefully removing layers of paint to uncover the original factory paint. I admit this trend may not yet have widespread support among machine tool restorers....but it will sink in one day I hope. I have recently removed an entire coat of yellow paint from a 1940's Thiel bandsaw to uncover the factory gray finish - much better .

    I am sure the Barnes Drill will look great in new paint too.

    barnes-drill-co-geared-head-drill-feb-1912-canadian-machinery-vol-8-no.-2-detail.jpg barnes-drill-201-1-4-manual-page-10a.jpg barnes-drill-201-1-4-manual-page-3.jpg

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    Some pics of mine after a quick cleanup and paint job MetalR. Inclined driveshaft, bearings and oil lines are a thing of beauty- don't have a pic with the side cover off though...
    img_0224.jpg

    img_0225.jpg
    img_0231.jpg img_0232.jpg img_0233.jpg

    JM

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    Here are some photos that Jeff (MetalRevival) sent me, hopefully they attach at a decent size. Click on thumbnail and then click again on the image for full size.

    It is great to see inside one of these machines. My Barnes Drill is from 1944 and is quite different in some ways, but the angled/sloping gearbox, crown gearing and oil pump is just a development of this early design.

    barnes-drill-co-b-09.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-10.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-13.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-14.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-15.jpg

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    1944 you say? Perhaps my terming B.F. Barnes a "successor" was apt?

    My information indicates W.F. & J. Barnes died in the Great Depression. One report of a factory basement filled with unsold machines as Barnes attempted to continue employment and ride out the business downturn - all reported to have gone to WWII scrap drives and a small portion before that sold to Russia (as a "developing nation" and user of non-grid treadle powered machines.)

    Joe in NH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in NH View Post
    1944 you say? Perhaps my terming B.F. Barnes a "successor" was apt?

    My information indicates W.F. & J. Barnes died in the Great Depression. One report of a factory basement filled with unsold machines as Barnes attempted to continue employment and ride out the business downturn - all reported to have gone to WWII scrap drives and a small portion before that sold to Russia (as a "developing nation" and user of non-grid treadle powered machines.)

    Joe in NH
    Joe,

    It is clear that W.F & John Barnes Co. and the Barnes Drill Co. were different companies which existed separately for many decades.

    The Barnes Drill Co. was founded in 1907 and still exits as Barnes International, at the same address where my drill was built in 1944.

    I have several pages of W.F & John Barnes history found on the internet some years back - they continued long after the Great Depression but building different machinery e.g. for automobile production.

    Just found some of it, this article from 1955:

    W. F. & John Barnes Company - VintageMachinery.org Knowledge Base (Wiki)

    More links on this page:

    W. F. & John Barnes Co. - History | VintageMachinery.org

    A brief summary, sorry I haven't recorded who wrote this:

    W. F. & John Barnes Co. was established 1869, made a formal partnership in 1872, and incorporated in 1884. This company was an early manufacturer of pedal-powered equipment. There were many companies making lightweight foot-powered equipment, but Barnes and the Seneca Falls Co. were the only ones to also make professional-grade machines. From the beginning of their existence, they focused on pedal-powered machinery, especially scroll saws, and from about 1890 they began to specialize further, in drill presses.
    An ad in a 1915 issue of "Carpenter and Builder" features their No. 7 treadle-powered scrollsaw.
    By 1937 their focus had completely shifted to automotive assembly machinery, and their production of foot-powered machinery had ceased. In the intervening years they have got out of manufacturing completely. After a series of ownership changes, their parts and paper were purchased in 1998 by LeBlond Ltd. of Amelia, OH.


    And a brief summary of the Barnes Drill Co from the Barnes International website (copied a few years back):

    Barnes International, Inc. was founded in 1907 as Barnes Drill Co. to manufacture the first all-geared drilling machines. By the mid-1920's Barnes developed the first cylinder bore honing machines in response to the needs of the newly emerging auto industry. Drilling products were gradually phased out in favor of this new technology in bore (hole) finishing.

    Continued development of the honing process into the 1940's and 1950's enabled Barnes to manufacture the first hydraulic honing machine. Barnes also discovered that honing could be used for many other parts where precision bore geometries and fine finishes were required.
    About this same time, Barnes developed the magnetic coolant separator to more efficiently provide clean coolant for honing operations. This product line, like the honing product line, continued to develop and grow as Barnes added cyclonic, fabric and permanent media filtration techniques to provide its customers with the most innovative and cutting-edge coolant filtration products.

    Barnes today manufactures state-of-the-art honing products and a wide range of filtration equipment to serve the needs of grinding, honing and cutting machine manufacturers and end users. We have been awarded several hundred patents of which 8 are currently active. Barnes’ history of technological leadership has been and will continue to be a key factor in our success
    . (from Barnes International website)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in NH View Post
    1944 you say? Perhaps my terming B.F. Barnes a "successor" was apt?

    My information indicates W.F. & J. Barnes died in the Great Depression. One report of a factory basement filled with unsold machines as Barnes attempted to continue employment and ride out the business downturn - all reported to have gone to WWII scrap drives and a small portion before that sold to Russia (as a "developing nation" and user of non-grid treadle powered machines.)

    Joe in NH
    All wrong again.

    My W.F. & John Barnes machine tool catalogs from the 1950's.

    Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_4490.jpg   img_4493.jpg   img_4491.jpg   img_4492.jpg   img_4494.jpg  


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    I hear you Rob about the glass and am going to stick to chemical stripper and a wire wheel. May use the bristle blaster on the large open sections. I suggested flat or semigloss black but the customer likes the Powermatic green I did on a bandsaw.

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    Update on the Barnes Drill press restoration: after getting great advice on this forum I chose NOT to sandblast as originally planned. The thought of harming the Babbitts was the deciding factor. Degreasing this beast was a total pain and most commercial degreasers didnít work. I think next time Iíll set up a heated degreasing station. Stripped the paint off with Benco B17 (seriously wicked stuff) and 3M Rolodex ceramic discs. Then I did at least 10 rounds of a waterborne was and grease remover made by SPI in GA. I then shot three coats of SPI epoxy primer and hope to shoot color next week and get this job out the door. I do have a question: I want to paint the numbers in the speed indicator ( pic of it painted green on our tablecloth) black, but some of the numbers are hard to read. Anyone know them? I apologize for the pics being oriented wrong but I canít seem to figure it all out
    Thanks,
    Jeff
    Metal Revival
    #metal_revival
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 61e0bee7-4537-40a2-a503-d3286d564ecc.jpg   0053870c-69e7-485b-9e56-8fc13e00a179.jpg   272126bd-0318-49ff-b40a-0550c49fb9c0.jpg   6c4dee85-a42e-4308-a378-ce9a249b676f.jpg  

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    Jeff,

    I can't make out all the numbers, here is what I reckon (I have a photo you sent earlier, attached).

    You are welcome to send me a better (higher resolution) photo and I will post it, we should be able to see the indistinct numbers.

    From the top:

    S-021
    F-071

    S-012
    F-041

    S-???? hidden by lever
    F-028 ??

    S-005
    F-016

    You probably know this: S and F refer to the Slow and Fast options for each of the four lever positions. The Slow and Fast lever will be elsewhere. The numbers denote "thousands of an inch feed per revolution of the spindle" i.e. distance the spindle travels for every revolution. So 021 means 0.021" or twenty one thousands of an inch.

    These old machines had excessively high feed rates in my opinion, probably OK on a production job with a proper fixture, coolant and depending on the workpiece material. I would be happy to use the .005" feed rate for steel with average clamping, average drill sharpness and a squirt of dark cutting oil.

    BTW, Barnes must have had options for feed rates or at least changed the gearing over the years, as I have photos of similar feed selector plates from 3 different machines and they are not the same.


    barnes-drill-co-b-12.jpg barnes-drill-co-05.jpg barnes-drill-4mt-16x26-table-06.jpg

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    I was fortunate to own a similar Barnes drill several years ago. 5 hp., no 5 taper, forward & reverse clutches. pristine table. I used it mostly for large tapping.

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    Can anyone walk me through the basic operation of the drill? I’m not a machinist and I doubt the owner of this drill has ever used one like it.

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    Jeff has sent me some larger images of the feed numbers, here is my guess:

    From the top:

    S-021
    F-071

    S-012
    F-041

    S-008
    F-028

    S-005
    F-016


    barnes-drill-co-b-20a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-19a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-16a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-17a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-18a.jpg

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    Jeff,
    Regarding operating procedure, one thing to check is that the power feed will "trip" itself out of gear automatically.

    There is usually an adjustable stop which does this. It is very important, because inexperienced users in particular may engage the power feed while the drill is running (or not running) and then get distracted or not even notice the spindle is slowly feeding downwards.

    If the feed trip is not working, the spindle will continue to feed down and eventually something will bottom out and break. The damage may be severe if there is no safety clutch.

    This might sound unlikely, however I used to have a W.H. & John Barnes drill which had lost its adjustable feed trip and had nothing to prevent a smash if the feed bottomed out. I made a trip for it.

    I would not test the feed trip under power initially. You may be able to test it by hand somehow or perhaps rotate the input pulley on the rear of the machine by hand to test

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    Jeff (MetalRevival) sent me some photos showing the Barnes finished and ready to be collected. Very nice

    Barnes Drill Co. Drills - All Geared - Self Oiled.

    The last photo was taken before completion.

    To view the images full size, click on the thumbnail, then click on the image twice.

    barnes-drill-co-b-26a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-24a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-23a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-25a.jpg barnes-drill-co-b-22a.jpg

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