Benchmaster vertical mill

bluearc · Feb 2, 2017

The spindle has a about 1/4 play, are there any suggestions on how to correct this.
The mill is-Model mh3
ser# 7116
Los angles ca.

Thanks

tdmidget · Feb 2, 2017

Not sure whar 1/4 play means. Quill travel? Run out?

JST · Feb 2, 2017

That unit has cone and cup roller bearings, generally quite good ones.

The nut on top of the spindle draws the spindle up and preloads the bearings. Doing that takes care of any slop, radial or axial, so long as the bearings are lubed and in good condition.

Have you had it apart to see if the bearings are clean, greased, and in good condition? If not, might be a good idea. The seal on the spindle nose will need to be removed to take out the spindle, and the nut I mentioned comes off to allow the spindle to come out.

When a unit comes to you with that sort of evidence of bad maintenance or fiddling by ignorant folks, it is wise to make no assumptions, but to verify that all is well.

bluearc · Feb 8, 2017

First of all thank you for the help.

I took it apart and according to a diagram the following parts are missing.

#'s 6.7.8.9. and #s 18 and 19 should be replaced.

Is there any way I can get these parts.

Dave G. · Feb 8, 2017

I had a Benchmaster vertical mill - nice small machines. There is a very active Yahoo group that can help with location parts, have you found them/asked there?

JST · Feb 8, 2017

bluearc said:
First of all thank you for the help.

I took it apart and according to a diagram the following parts are missing.

#'s 6.7.8.9. and #s 18 and 19 should be replaced.

Is there any way I can get these parts.

The bearings are hard to find in the original quality. I assume they must be bad since you say they need replaced, but what is actually wrong with them?

The spacer can be made, and seals can be obtained, I have SKF numbers for 3 of hem SKF did not have a suitable seal for the 4th part.

partsproduction · Feb 8, 2017

An old machinist long gone now once told me that the bearings on the Benchmaster are hard to change, meaning tolerances are tight. If some office worker said that it wouldn't mean much to me, but coming from that old screw machine shop owner/operator it meant a lot. I think I bought the one I had from him.

JST · Feb 8, 2017

The date on the bearings in mine is during the war. I assume they were surplus parts, since the war was over when the mills were made. Dates and what looks like an orientation mark for the high or low spot.

I have heard that compatible ones are not made in the grade of the originals.

So it is worth asking what the problem with the existing ones is. Of course, if the thing was run with that much play, they are probably trashed, but.....

bluearc · Feb 9, 2017

JST said:
The bearings are hard to find in the original quality. I assume they must be bad since you say they need replaced, but what is actually wrong with them?

The spacer can be made, and seals can be obtained, I have SKF numbers for 3 of hem SKF did not have a suitable seal for the 4th part.

I have no idea why the previous owner would remove the parts and not replace them.

I would appreciate any numbers of the parts that I need to purchase and where they can be obtained.

bluearc · Feb 9, 2017

I attempted to join that group twice and each time something questionable appeared on my desktop after which I asked to be removed as a member. I would have liked to remain there however something was not correct.

IrbyJones · Feb 9, 2017

bluearc said:
I attempted to join that group twice and each time something questionable appeared on my desktop after which I asked to be removed as a member. I would have liked to remain there however something was not correct.

I find Yahoo horrible these days. The computer folks with any imagination have all gone apparently. I moderate a few groups there.

Irby

Andy FitzGibbon · Feb 9, 2017

The Benchmaster I use at work had seals that were two steel "cups", pressed together, with clearance holes for the spindle to pass through, and a layer of felt sandwiched in between that fit tight to the spindle. I just separated them, replaced the felt, and put them back together. Not sure if all of them were built that way, but they seem to be working fine.

Andy

JST · Feb 9, 2017

So you are actually missing the parts, including at least portions of the bearings?

6 is a spacer, which you will have to make. IIRC one seal runs on it, so hat area will need a good finish.

7 is a seal, which can be bought in a new version

8 and 9 are the upper bearing, which is a tapered roller bearing.

18 is the cup for the lower bearing

19 is the upper seal for the lower bearing.

The cones and cups are commonly available separately, so that may not be a big deal. If you get the number off the cone for the lower, you can find an equivalent cup from a bearing house. Check the recess internal diameter to be sure it is compatible.

With a good measurement of the spindle outside diameter and the recess internal diameter where the bearing seats, the bearing house should be able to get you an upper bearing cone and cup. Rollers are with the cone, in general.

With the spindle diameter and recess diameter, they should also be able to supply seals. The new seals will be rubber lip seals, most likely, SKF has all the needed ones other than the one under the upper bearing, which is a size not carried.

I have the SKF seal numbers around here somewhere if you need them

bluearc · Feb 9, 2017

JST said:
So you are actually missing the parts, including at least portions of the bearings?

6 is a spacer, which you will have to make. IIRC one seal runs on it, so hat area will need a good finish.

7 is a seal, which can be bought in a new version

8 and 9 are the upper bearing, which is a tapered roller bearing.

18 is the cup for the lower bearing

19 is the upper seal for the lower bearing.

The cones and cups are commonly available separately, so that may not be a big deal. If you get the number off the cone for the lower, you can find an equivalent cup from a bearing house. Check the recess internal diameter to be sure it is compatible.

With a good measurement of the spindle outside diameter and the recess internal diameter where the bearing seats, the bearing house should be able to get you an upper bearing cone and cup. Rollers are with the cone, in general.

With the spindle diameter and recess diameter, they should also be able to supply seals. The new seals will be rubber lip seals, most likely, SKF has all the needed ones other than the one under the upper bearing, which is a size not carried.

I have the SKF seal numbers around here somewhere if you need them

I would appreciate the SKF numbers, thanks again

bluearc · Feb 12, 2017

Can you let know what the SKF seal numbers are.

JST · Feb 12, 2017

Yeah, gotta find the boxes.

JST · Feb 13, 2017

OK. From the top down, what I used on mine for shaft seals.

Topside of top bearing SKF 10114 size 1" ID

Underside of top bearing. SKF 11066 This is NOT the correct size, as I found out. it is the right 1.561 OD,but the 1 1/8 ID was not correct, it is a little too big. As I recall the correct size did not exist in SKF, it may have been 1 1/16" or some such.

Top of lower bearing SKF 11878 size 1 3/16" ID 2.062 OD

underside of lower bearing SKF 15141 size 1.5 ID, 2.5 OD

This is what I used, I have no idea if the units are all the same, so you should confirm the sizes.

These also have added a bit more friction than it had with the bad seals. I do not know what the friction would have been if the original seals were good. They were all bad, the rubber ones were hard as rocks and had space between them and the shaft. The felt ones were probably no worse frictionwise than when made, but they were loose and baggy, not acting to block dust entry.

It is possible that a better match to the originals exists, and felt seals may be available. I know some report replacing the felt. I could not do that, as the seals would not come out easily, and removing them destroyed them. They were cemented-in with hardened grease and related gunk.

bluearc · Feb 18, 2017

JST said:
OK. From the top down, what I used on mine for shaft seals.

Topside of top bearing SKF 10114 size 1" ID

Underside of top bearing. SKF 11066 This is NOT the correct size, as I found out. it is the right 1.561 OD,but the 1 1/8 ID was not correct, it is a little too big. As I recall the correct size did not exist in SKF, it may have been 1 1/16" or some such.

Top of lower bearing SKF 11878 size 1 3/16" ID 2.062 OD

underside of lower bearing SKF 15141 size 1.5 ID, 2.5 OD

This is what I used, I have no idea if the units are all the same, so you should confirm the sizes.

These also have added a bit more friction than it had with the bad seals. I do not know what the friction would have been if the original seals were good. They were all bad, the rubber ones were hard as rocks and had space between them and the shaft. The felt ones were probably no worse frictionwise than when made, but they were loose and baggy, not acting to block dust entry.

It is possible that a better match to the originals exists, and felt seals may be available. I know some report replacing the felt. I could not do that, as the seals would not come out easily, and removing them destroyed them. They were cemented-in with hardened grease and related gunk.

Thanks Diamond this helps me alot.

Blue

bluearc · Feb 25, 2017

bluearc said:
Thanks Diamond this helps me alot.

Blue

Diamond, in the benchmaster diagram of parts; fig.8 part #3816 small spindle bearing cone. If you can help me.
I would like to order one of those.
Blue

Andy FitzGibbon · Feb 25, 2017

bluearc said:
Diamond, in the benchmaster diagram of parts; fig.8 part #3816 small spindle bearing cone. If you can help me.
I would like to order one of those.
Blue

Benchmaster hasn't been in business for years. Nowhere to order parts that I know of. Anything othe than bearings and seals will have to be made.

Andy

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