Beryllium contamination?

I've recently acquired a Gorton 9J milling machine that is tagged as having been owned by AC Spark Plug, Milwaukee. In doing a bit research it appears they built inertial navigation units for icbm missiles, the Apollo missions, etc. As such, some components were certainly beryllium. Which leads me to wonder about the possibility that this mill could have beryllium dust lurking in/on it? Thoughts?

Does it glow in the dark? If not, run with it. Highly doubt there is any dust accumulation on that mill anywhere. Wash it down if your concern.

Honesty, unless you can run your finger across any surface and collect beryllium on your finger, I highly doubt you are going to collect any on your finger. The only way beryllium dust can affect you, it has to be inhaled into your lungs. You have a greater chance of catching cov-19 that poison from beryllium contamination. Last, if there is a accumulation of beryllium chips on the mill, collect them and go cash in at the scrap yard, if you can find a scrap yard that will take them.

Ken

If you're really concerned, there are test facilities that can take clean wipes you've run along surface to collect particles and then analysis them for materials and concentrations. But this will be expensive, perhaps in the hundreds for a small number of samples.

If you're really concerned, get a good respirator (they're available again, but more expensive then they used to be) and just wash/wipe every exposed surface and dispose of the wipes in a sealed bag. Clean the clothes you wore, shower, etc. Don't use an air hose on the machine, just a vacuum with a good HEPA filter and bags.

My understanding is that not everyone is susceptible to berylliosis, but concern about the risk are reasonable. Berylliosis - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)

If you that concerned all the usual scum bags amazon alli express have Geiger counters for about 100.00.
I wouldn't put credence the reading with out a NIST Cert. but push will push the price way up
Could also look into renting one.
Till ya get an answerer just wrap your head and twig and berries in lead sheet.

Milland said:

If you're really concerned, there are test facilities that can take clean wipes you've run along surface to collect particles and then analysis them for materials and concentrations. But this will be expensive, perhaps in the hundreds for a small number of samples.

If you're really concerned, get a good respirator (they're available again, but more expensive then they used to be) and just wash/wipe every exposed surface and dispose of the wipes in a sealed bag. Clean the clothes you wore, shower, etc. Don't use an air hose on the machine, just a vacuum with a good HEPA filter and bags.

My understanding is that not everyone is susceptible to berylliosis, but concern about the risk are reasonable. Berylliosis - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)

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If do all of the above, be certain to the bagged and properly identified waste to a registered hazardous waste facility for proper disposal. Don't make your problem someone else's by pitching that crap in your household trash.

beryllium is not radioactive, just poisonous as dust. Geiger counters not required nor useful.

reggie_obe said:

If do all of the above, be certain to the bagged and properly identified waste to a registered hazardous waste facility for proper disposal. Don't make your problem someone else's by pitching that crap in your household trash.

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This is a toughy, as if there was definitely signs of contamination I'd agree with you, but at the moment all we have is OP concern, not certainty. Proper disposal not only can cost money, but also uses resources and storage area that could be used for real, known contaminated materials.

This company (http://www.onsite-env.com/pdf/Schedule-of-Fees.pdf (page 9 for this test price)) offers a multi-metal test analysis for $170, and includes Be, along with Ag,As,Cd,Cr,Cu,Hg,Ni,Pb,Sb,Se,Tl,Z. I've no idea if they'll work from wipes or similar, but a call or email could confirm.

If they can do the job, just for the peace of mind $170 sounds reasonable. Here's their contact page: Environmental Analytical Testing Services OnSite Environmental, Inc.

No idea of how good they are, just found them when searching for pricing.

JST said:

beryllium is not radioactive, just poisonous as dust. Geiger counters not required nor useful.

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Nor does it 'glow in the dark,'

old machines often have cadmium plated parts too, vanadium in steel as well as other metals can be toxic. had health and safety once collect all lead in shop. lead hammers, plumbers solder, etc
.
just saying alot of things can be toxic, try not to put food on it and then eat contaminated food, or make dust then breath in
.
by the way dirt (soil) outside on ground often has toxic stuff in it, arsenic in water as well as other natural contaminates in it is common. asbestos is a naturally occurring mineral

Milland said:

This is a toughy, as if there was definitely signs of contamination I'd agree with you, but at the moment all we have is OP concern, not certainty.

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The Brits would say, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

reggie_obe said:

The Brits would say, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

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Chinese manufacturers would say dump it out back....next to that well.

reggie_obe said:

The Brits would say, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

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They'd also say "Blimey!", and "We shall fight on the beaches". I'm just hoping they don't say anything about that tea that's still at the bottom of the harbor...

toolsteel said:

Chinese manufacturers would say dump it out back....next to that well.

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Did the former owners or the seller have a legal obligation to disclose that the machine was/may be contaminated?
If you have concerns, at least double bag any rags and waste from the machine, label it and try to dispose of properly. Some states will have several days a year when household haxmat can be dropped off for free. Might start by checking with your county.

Don't make your problem someone else's by pitching that crap in your household trash.

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Actually, possibly the best place for it is household trash.

Burning of household trash is essentially a "concentration" process. The 100 percent trash that goes into the process becomes after burning 10 percent "concentrates" of "bad actors." Maintenance on waste burning boilers (welding, cleaning) is usually done in full haz-mat suits because of the health risk.

Here is the trash stream process in most locations:
1. Streetside pickup.
2. Separation of "consumer containers."
3. Trucking remainder to incinerator.
4. Burning under EPA control (7 pollutants to Federal Emission Standard)
5. Ash remaining "mined" for non-Federal inclusion including, copper, brass, steel & iron, even lead that finds its way into the ashpit (not vaporized.)
6. Remainder "stockpiled."

For the beryllium, the stockpiling is the important part. A large outdoor pile is created under which are three layers of rubber. The interstice between the rubbers is "monitored" and any drain from or intrusion of liquid from the pile above is removed, treated, filtered, and released to the environment meeting Federal Emission Standards. Most of the liquid removed is rainwater which water, as one of the most perfect of solutes, will eventually dissolve and carry away the bad actors in the pile.

Eventually (hundreds of years) the pile will remain (90 percent silica) and the bad actors will be concentrated by water treatment, and further isolated from human contact.

Everyone talks about the hazard of radioactive waste - the cost of storage of non-radioactive haz-mat waste FAR exceeds the cost of waste nuclear storage - and that includes the 24/7/365 guards. The trash burning stockpile will remain a stockpile for WELL into the foreseeable future and will require continuous water treatment of rain that falls on the pile.

But as a place to put trace amounts of beryllium, it makes sense.

Around here, everyone is encouraged to put their waste Mercury containing batteries in the trash. Mercury is one of those 7 Federal Emission Controls that trash burners must meet.

Surprisingly, one of the most difficult materials for Trash Burners to burn is gypsum sheet-rock (construction waste.) The gypsum releases VAST QUANTITIES of Nitrous Oxides (Another Federal Emission Limit) in burning. If I knew construction waste including sheet-rock was part of my shift quota of fuel, I would encourage the Tipping Floor to isolate and "measure out" any sheet-rock.

The solution to pollution IS dilution. A fact totally forgotten in the disposal of waste nuclear materials. (Dare I say this?)

Joe in NH
Former Trash Burning Powerplant Control Room Operator

Realistically, the only way it would possibly hurt you would be if you were able to gather enough beryllium dust off the machine into a line, took a straw and snorted it up your nose. Just use common sense, wipe the machine down with an oily rag and run it.

Mike

Yes, I suppose I'm just being overly concerned. The mill has likely been somewhere other than AC for quite a while. I'm not sure when they quit building that type of stuff, and the Gorton would've been long obsolete in light of CNC machine technology.

The mill came from HGR, so no idea of its recent origin. One article I read stated the AC was proud of their health and safety program with beryllium, so it's probably unlikely that they would've turned loose a contaminated machine.

Probably clean it well with simpler green or something similar, and move on.

Milland said:

They'd also say "Blimey!", and "We shall fight on the beaches". I'm just hoping they don't say anything about that tea that's still at the bottom of the harbor...

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I thought they only fought in pubs and at Football matches!

Really. Just wipe it down. The Radon coming out of the ground into the buildings you spend time in, is more likely to kill you, as is whatever you had for lunch.

The only time a have ever seen a fuss made over beryllium was a cleanup project in a weld shop. I was told that beryllium was used in grinding wheels.

I have personally machined beryllium bronze, beryllium in some forms can be bad. However don't go off the deep end on the safety stuff.

Ever heard of silver amalgam?

If you want a world of hurt ,not to mention bankruptcy,rat yourself out to some Environmental department or other ......once you are on their list ,catch 22 doesnt compare.

Aaron B said:

I've recently acquired a Gorton 9J milling machine that is tagged as having been owned by AC Spark Plug, Milwaukee. In doing a bit research it appears they built inertial navigation units for icbm missiles, the Apollo missions, etc. As such, some components were certainly beryllium. Which leads me to wonder about the possibility that this mill could have beryllium dust lurking in/on it? Thoughts?

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Your Gorton mill is not contaminated with beryllium. When a company needs a beryllium component they contact the Brush Wellman company and have them make the part.
Brush Wellman is now called the Materion Brush company. The reason for this is that Brush is the only source in the US for beryllium metal and they are one of the few companies with the facilities for forming the part by hot forging the powder or machining the forging. OSHA requires that beryllium dust in the work place be less than 2.0 micrograms per cubic meter averaged over a 8 hour work shift. In spite of the company's best efforts, Brush Wellman has a history of being sued by former employees.

The health hazard is from soluble beryllium salts rather than from the pure metal dust. Most workers are immune to the hazard of inhalation of the salts. About 1% of the beryllium factory workers during the bomb making years become ill. This was primarily in the ore processing and metal production plants. This occured before there were any health standards for beryllium exposure.

Brush Wellman did extensive work making components for nuclear bombs. The 1940's bomb making facility in Ohio was contaminated by radioactive materials. The site is currently being cleaned up by the government at a cost of 200 million.

The only exceptions that come to mind were a company might do finishing work on a beryllium part is in the optics industry and in the manufacture of X-ray windows.

Fast steering mirrors are sometimes made from beryllium to minimize their rotational inertia. The Webb space telescope primary mirror is also made from beryllium. The mirror work is a wet grinding and polishing process so the dust problem can be dealt with.

The X-ray windows are punched out of beryllium sheet metal. The sheet is formed by hot rolling a powder forged billet.

A internet search does show that General Dynamics offers a beryllium machining service. They are one of the few.

Your concern about contamination is misplaced. Any machine contaminated by beryllium was either washed down and scraped or buried in a landfill. Defence contractors are not allowed to surplus contaminated equipment.