Best end mill for slotting with my B&S #2 - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Actually, it's all done. I milled the slots with a 1/4" horizontal cutter. They came out a few thousandths over size so the vanes were made of 5/16 flat stock. I surface ground that until it was very close then I lapped the sides until they slid in the slots without any measurable side to side movement. I used tiny coil springs and drilled the underside of the vanes to accept them so that they could fully compress. There is absolutely no room to spare in this pump as it has to fit in the same space as the old bearing holder for the end of the camshaft, between the back of the crankcase and the front of the flywheel. As it is, I'll have to turn the end of the camshaft down from 1" to 3/4" so that it slips into the center of the rotor. It was a time consuming job but I'm happy with the result. I don't think it is practical from a cost perspective - if I was paying someone else to do it the price would have been astronomical but I do this stuff for my own amusement and the one thing I have to spend on it is time.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdTom View Post
    I would suggest using a 7/32 end mill and creeping up on the .250" and making the last cuts climb cuts. Possibly roughing out the cuts even with a hacksaw before getting to the mill. A few cuts of increasing depth with the 7/32" mill won't take too long though, then increase the width in small increments climb cutting until you get to size.
    Thanks in any case. Where are you in RI? My shop is in Woonsocket.

  4. #23
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    99Panhard:

    Thank you for the explanation of the Mitchell engine and its oiling system. Would the "box" with the lubrication pump inside be a "mechanical lubricator" (such as Manzel, Madison-Kipp, or McCord) ? Mechanical lubricators contained small piston pumps which metered "shots" of oil and forced it to where it was needed via tubing.

    A mechanical lubricator like a Manzel, Madison-Kipp, or McCord could be ordered for either "intermittent motion" drive (such as a linkage to some reciprocating part), or with a small sprocket for continuous drive, being belted (or chain-driven) off some turning shaft.

    Back "in the day", when very early cars were built, mechanical lubricators were sometimes used to meter shots of lube oil to various points in the engines. This was a carry-over from steam engine and low-speed gas engine practice.

    We take recirculation lube systems in car engines for granted, and we take lube systems using positive pressure forcing oil thru drillings to the various bearings or other component parts needing lubrication. I am old enough to remember when auto engines combined positive pressure lubrication with "slingers" on the big ends of the con rods. As late as the 1950's, this sort of combined system using positive pressure to force oil to some of the engine parts, and slingers to splash oil to other parts, was still in use. I recall seeing a few cars from the 20's and 30's with overhead valve engines. An oil can on a shelf with a holder was factory equipment under the hoods of those cars. The oil cans were to lube the rocker arms every so-many miles. A driver had to lift the hood panels and manually lube the rocker arms, along with the distributor and generator (all of which had "Gits" type oil cups, or an oil hole cover under the distributor's "head"). The water pumps on the old cars usually had a screw-down type of grease cup which got a twist when the rockers and distributor and generator got oiled.

    I do not know the history of the Mitchell automobile, but do intend to research it. A brass era car that intrigues me is the Lozier, for no other reason than it was built in NY State up at Plattsburgh. About as unlikely a place as any to set up to build automobiles. I have an tattered old book in my library called "Dr Dyke's Automobile Encyclopedia", from the 'teens. It is a great old book and covers such topics as setting up a repair garage, outitting ones self and family and car to go auto-camping, diagrams and explanations of any number of early automobile engines and drivetrains, and quite a listing of "orphan cars"- cars whose manufacturers were already out of business. The orphan car list included machine shops or other firms who were still supporting the "orphan cars" in terms of parts or service.

    The book contains a "Ford supplement", with all sorts of information about the Model T and Fordson tractor and accessories for the Model T. It also has a supplement for motorcycles and the Liberty aircraft engine. It's a great old book and I should pull it off the shelves and look up the Mitchell car.

    Your mention of P.M. Heldt also rings a bell with me. I have a copy from the 1930's of "High Speed Diesel Engines" by P.M. Heldt. Heldt was apparently a prolific author of books about internal combustion engines. He was there at the dawn of the automobile age, and stuck with it into the 30's when high speed diesel engines were coming into use for trucks and busses and construction machinery.

    Brass era cars are something that interests me, not just for the overall era and appearnces of the cars, but for the fact they were the first real designs of what became common practice in automotive engines. Back "in the day", a total loss oiling system, or an engine that trailed oil behind the car was an accepted fact. Of course, the roads were mainly dirt, and an "improved road" was gravelled. Highway departments oiled the roads in the warmer weather to control dust, often using used lube oil for the purpose. A brass era car engine drooling some oil onto the roads was helping the highway department in those days. Nowadays, if a car drooled lube oil, the environmentalists and similar agencies would be on the owner/operator in a heartbeat. Oiling the roads is something only us old farts remember.

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  6. #24
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    Peter Martin Heldt was the editor of Horseless Age Magazine at the turn of the century. Horseless Age was the automobile "trade" publication although I'm certain others read it as well. He was obviously a competent engineer in his own right. The SAE was founded as a result of one of his editorials calling for a professional automobile design association although it was created from the technical committee of the ALAM. I'm using the first edition of his book and trying to keep all my modifications in the context of the cars original working life which I surmise was about 1910-1915. It was quite a revelation to me to read his book. Many of the aspects of engine design we take for granted were already known and used in 1910 - they just hadn't become the norm as yet. Heldt produced many editions of his book, constantly updating it. It certainly went on into the 30s and maybe even the 40s. He died in the early 1950s.

    Lozier was a top-flight car, the equal of Pierce, Packard, and Peerless. It also had a considerable racing history. Unfortunately, very few survive. You might also look at the Chandler. That company was started by some of the Lozier executives and the earliest models are almost carbon copies of the smaller Lozier model.

    I very much agree about the machines too. I've found that using old machines to fix old machines (like this car) is actually quite efficient. There is something to be said for using the tools they used. If nothing else, all the parts are designed to be made on essentially late 19-th century equipment.

    I doubt Dyke's will have anything on my car. This model was apparently a disaster, made only in 1910 and 1911. In 1912 the engine was completely redesigned. The saving grace is that they were limited as to materials. I'm sure if Zmak had been around they would have used it. There is no pot metal and everything is mild steel, bronze, aluminum and cast iron. Supposedly the later car was better but I've never had a chance to work on one so I can't testify to that. Mitchell tried to make a reasonably "big" car and sell it for the price of much smaller machines. The price of the 4-cylinder car Model T (Which is what I have and is very confusing to most people...many manufacturers used letter designations for their models ) was 1,250 in 1910. The engine displaces almost 300 cubic inches where my REO (I had two of them many years ago, 1910 and 1911) was a third smaller and cost the same amount. A 4-cylinder Locomobile, which was an extremely good car, cost almost 3 times as much although it had essentially the same number of parts and the same displacement.

    I have a vague memory of the City of Pawtucket, Rhode Island paving our street. It must have been around 1956 or 57 because I was pretty small but until then it was dirt...and this is in an old, east coast city in a blue-collar neighborhood where all the houses were built around 1923-25.
    Last edited by 99Panhard; 10-13-2019 at 04:40 PM. Reason: typos

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99Panhard View Post
    Thanks in any case. Where are you in RI? My shop is in Woonsocket.
    I am in Foster, Tom

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    Evolution of lubrication systems is interesting.

    I use a 1931 Farmall tractor, with 4 cylinders but only 2 main bearings, both ball. A gear-type oil pump supplies oil to the governor, and to a set of nozzles along the length of a tube in the crankcase, that keep sheet-metal troughs full for dippers on the connecting rod caps. Splash from this oils cylinder walls, wrist-pins, camshaft bearings and lifters, and those antifriction main bearings. In the 40-odd years I have run this tractor, I have had no trouble with any of these, so it apparently works quite well, at the engine's designed governed 1300RPM.

    The engine has overhead valves, and originally the rockers, pushrods, and valves were oiled only by wicks in stamped troughs that were oiled manually through gits-type caps in the top of valve-cover. Some years ago when I had the head off, I added a small external line from the oil manifold to a drilled hole in the head casting to my own oil-rail with nozzles, to keep the troughs full. Now she burns quite a bit of oil that must be running down the valve guides, but I have peace of mind about the rockers.

    I love your upgrade, 99Panhard.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdTom View Post
    I am in Foster, Tom
    If you find yourself in Woonsocket feel free to drop in. I'm in the shop most days...

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by magneticanomaly View Post
    Evolution of lubrication systems is interesting.

    I use a 1931 Farmall tractor, with 4 cylinders but only 2 main bearings, both ball. A gear-type oil pump supplies oil to the governor, and to a set of nozzles along the length of a tube in the crankcase, that keep sheet-metal troughs full for dippers on the connecting rod caps. Splash from this oils cylinder walls, wrist-pins, camshaft bearings and lifters, and those antifriction main bearings. In the 40-odd years I have run this tractor, I have had no trouble with any of these, so it apparently works quite well, at the engine's designed governed 1300RPM.

    The engine has overhead valves, and originally the rockers, pushrods, and valves were oiled only by wicks in stamped troughs that were oiled manually through gits-type caps in the top of valve-cover. Some years ago when I had the head off, I added a small external line from the oil manifold to a drilled hole in the head casting to my own oil-rail with nozzles, to keep the troughs full. Now she burns quite a bit of oil that must be running down the valve guides, but I have peace of mind about the rockers.

    I love your upgrade, 99Panhard.
    Thanks...While trying not to sound too condescending, I find that most of this goes right over the heads of many of the so called "car guys"... who, more often than not, are far more interested in what a car looks like than how it works.

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