Bill's Bronze Gear

Hi all,

A good friend of mine is an elevator helper, working towards being a mechanic- he's in the middle of a job replacing a bank of vintage elevator equipment with new. He hooked me up with this worm gear wheel from one of the drives;

Bronze, very well over 100 lbs- gorgeous; just under 2' diameter, 1 tooth per inch, only mild wear. I'd love to have the matching worm but its deep in the casting on a long drive shaft- and he worked pretty hard to get this. OTOH he included a set of fancy bolts with ground shanks making a very nice fit used to attach it. I didn't use them for the wall mount because of the length and threads etc- and this system was easier.





So its a trophy on the wall now instead of in the scrap yard.

Are they going gearless now ?

I have worked on vintage DC gearless machines from 1928. It's gorgeous stuff in everyday use, and I consider it a privilege to have been up close.

looks like the beginning of a machinist wall clock...

Keeps making me think of the London Underground sign

Greg Menke said:

Keeps making me think of the London Underground sign

Click to expand...

Gods! Makes ME think of all the worm drive gearboxes we cracked open in the local Mill's boneyard, scrounging up scrap brass or bronze to sell for beer money when we were kids!

Next best find in there was anything with a 1/2 inch or so bearing ball in it. Premium slingshot ammo.

I'm glad I'm not the only one!

The elevator was dated 1939 and was apparently taken out of commission before the gear managed any real wear. The gears in the other elevators in the building were worn halfway through the teeth, but this elevator was removed with sledgehammers during renovations with no attempt to save the parts.

Yeah- as per conversations with Bill these old units are cut into managable pieces and scrapped as-is. Rescuing the gear he gave me was a special- generally they just saw the gears off, scrapyard doesn't care.

The motor field pieces are especially prized for scrapping given the amount of copper in them. Sometimes he hooks me up with other bits and pieces out of the trash bin; I have a couple banks of power factor capacitors, small pile of relays, a wirewound resistor with taps used for adjusting system timing, and a couple of the hall indicators with bell and illuminated arrow.

Very cool!

Any pics or info of that old American lathe? I find the early American gearheads to be extremely attractive... I'd love to see more.

I do have some pics of it,

here Index of /lathe/atw2

and in the shop http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/shop/shop2015/index.html

The pics are kind of old at this point I've not refereshed the web pages in some time.. but the lathe is the same lol. Its a 1936 High Duty, 12" swing, approx 3k pounds. ATW stopped making the High Duty machines about 1941, focusing on the Pacemakers- so this is a fairly late model. It originally had rapid traverse but all that equipment is gone (though I do have the apron operating handle for it in the parts pile). The taper attachment, steady rest are both present and in good shape. The original motor was replaced before I got the machine, with a modern 3hp that I run via VFD. Spindle is threaded using ATW's proprietary design (which is easy to replicate, just not found in the wild). I have an OEM faceplate and dog driver plate, I adapted the chuck backplate to this machine and mounted the P&B 4-jaw on it.

Max rpm is approx 750, but up there the quadrant gears get a bit noisy. I run Habcool cutting oil; brushed, flood or trickle depending on the job. The basin and sump are all sheet steel, and mostly flat so they don't <quite> drain properly- the lathe is slightly pitched towards the tailstock and back to help. The QC gearbox and apron both have working push-button oilers which do a fair job of distributing oil to the various shafts and ways- though the reservoirs are small and often need refilling.

Overall its a solid and good performing design with a number of operator-friendly features (comfortalby designed controls, adjustable micrometer dials)- though the latter just got me the other day; under frequent traverses the cross-slide micrometer dial lock collar is prone to unscrew and let the dial slip. I was in the middle of a job internal threading to a shoulder and realized I wasn't taking cuts no matter what I did (feed the compund, feed out the cross- nothing); I discovered the dial was slipping so the cutter was free of the workpiece during the cut. So now all my feed mic's are reset, the tool is back in the thread ok and estimate I'm at about 70% depth on the thread but no idea where I actually am. I left allowance at the shoulder for the cutter at full depth so I suppose it'll be ok... will find out later today lol

Greg,
Thanks for sharing .
The gear makes a nice display for your shop
Since you can't get the worm to go with it perhaps you could get your friend to take some pictures of it and some measurements if it hasn't already gone for scrap and you could have the information for a some day project to make another one.

This book turned up while I was looking for something else .
Catalog Record: Electric elevators: their construction and... | HathiTrust Digital Library
Maybe there will be a picture of a unit similar to the one your gear came from somewhere in there.
Perhaps something like this one ?
Electric elevators: their construction and operation, ... c.1. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
There are other mentions for worm gear here
Electric elevators: their construction and operation, ... c.1. - PT Search - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
I also notice these on line as well that may show something if is from an Otis elevator .
The Indicator Otis. v.1 no.5 1908. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
with other issues here,
Catalog Record: The Indicator Otis | HathiTrust Digital Library
There are some more Otis and elevator links in Post # 19 of this thread from a while ago .
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...d-otis-main-sheave-350267/?highlight=Elevator
Jim

Greg Menke said:

I do have some pics of it,

here Index of /lathe/atw2

and in the shop http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/shop/shop2015/index.html

The pics are kind of old at this point I've not refereshed the web pages in some time.. but the lathe is the same lol. Its a 1936 High Duty, 12" swing, approx 3k pounds. ATW stopped making the High Duty machines about 1941, focusing on the Pacemakers- so this is a fairly late model. It originally had rapid traverse but all that equipment is gone (though I do have the apron operating handle for it in the parts pile). The taper attachment, steady rest are both present and in good shape. The original motor was replaced before I got the machine, with a modern 3hp that I run via VFD. Spindle is threaded using ATW's proprietary design (which is easy to replicate, just not found in the wild). I have an OEM faceplate and dog driver plate, I adapted the chuck backplate to this machine and mounted the P&B 4-jaw on it.

Max rpm is approx 750, but up there the quadrant gears get a bit noisy. I run Habcool cutting oil; brushed, flood or trickle depending on the job. The basin and sump are all sheet steel, and mostly flat so they don't <quite> drain properly- the lathe is slightly pitched towards the tailstock and back to help. The QC gearbox and apron both have working push-button oilers which do a fair job of distributing oil to the various shafts and ways- though the reservoirs are small and often need refilling.

Overall its a solid and good performing design with a number of operator-friendly features (comfortalby designed controls, adjustable micrometer dials)- though the latter just got me the other day; under frequent traverses the cross-slide micrometer dial lock collar is prone to unscrew and let the dial slip. I was in the middle of a job internal threading to a shoulder and realized I wasn't taking cuts no matter what I did (feed the compund, feed out the cross- nothing); I discovered the dial was slipping so the cutter was free of the workpiece during the cut. So now all my feed mic's are reset, the tool is back in the thread ok and estimate I'm at about 70% depth on the thread but no idea where I actually am. I left allowance at the shoulder for the cutter at full depth so I suppose it'll be ok... will find out later today lol

Click to expand...

Man I love it! Thanks for sharing. I dunno why but the pattern of the castings really just screams "lathe" to me, more so even than the ubiquitous South Bend shape. Compare that to today's rectangular lathes. I love the patina that's on it as well, I'm glad you left it. Looks really good cleaned up but wearing it's old paint. I've got enough lathes for sure, but man! I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for one of those.

I hear you on the depth thing with the friction locks. My Sidney (I think it's dials are even larger, so more inertia) are really bad about that. Happens basically every time. Thankfully I usually thread with the ball stop engaged. It doesn't slip, but I set it on zero for confirmation. Also, if you have room, toss a mag back indicator on the cross-slide. It's good confirmation.

I've also been thinking about switching to a solid cutting oil, I don't like 30 minutes of cleaning after using water soluble. Do you like your Habcool, and how is it money wise? Also FWIW my quadrant gears ring like church bells at that speed lol.

Its Habcool 318 I run, it comes in approx 80 weight form, I diluted with DTE Light down to something like 10W in winter, which changes to something like #0 in summer. Habcool advertises it doesn't evaporate which I've found to be true. Its pretty spendy to get the 10 gal pail and then start diluting but it does stick around so is not a recurring expense.. I've topped it up once in probably 5 years- but keep the sumps covered. I have a pump and filter on a timer which periodically runs to clear out fines.

It is pretty rough on the skin though; dries and cracks fingernails and patchy dry skin after significant contact; so I've taken to applying some of the daughter's old diaper rash ointment on my hands before getting into it on the machine (by old I mean unused hahahah). That, and washing up quickly seems to mitigate the problem.

Habcool will stain copper alloys if left in contact. Its a good performer on fast hot cuts though splashing is a problem. I set up a cheapie 120v diagphragm pump with a bypass for flow control, drawing from the lathe's sump up to a hose with quick connect fitting. I set up mag base with a loc-line hose on the carriage, and some thru coolant boring bars with matching fittings.

The thru coolant tooling is really nifty, its fun to close the bypass and really blast into an inside cut- gets all the chips washed out and a stable cut since the piece doesn't heat much even when the cut is substantial. Would be great to have thru coolant drills but that gets a bit spendy, so I direct the flood as well as possible along the drill right into the end of the workpiece.

I run the stuff on my Bridgeport and horizontal mills too- which is great for the usual jobs, and for gear cutting- and a very big win when using slitting saws; a strong flood right onto the cutter washing out the chips helps a bunch. I've dorked around with using it on basic tapping ops, good there too if for no other reason than washing out the chips and some lubrication for the tool.

Its a bit messy, but keeps the machine clean- and no worries about rust or tramp oil. Being a home gamer when I finish a big dirty op I'll leave the machine to drain overnight and then clean up next day to avoid wasting coolant.




Re the Sydney, I'm not as cool as you w/ the herringbone gears, though my ATW does sport a couple helicals in the headstock lol. I sometimes use a micrometer for the carriage feed, when I need to stop w/o using a carriage stop (like on this ID threading job). A good idea to fit something like that for the cross too- will look into some small mag base things; would have saved me a bunch of fooling around on this job... thx!

A working worm gear drive can make a very useful blacksmiths twisting machine.