Bliss Shaper 1881 ?

Jeff_G · Jul 25, 2009

Tuckahoe Steam & Gas Association just acquired an old shaper. Pictures here.

From Cope's book, it most closely resembles the E W Bliss machine of 1881 (page 32) although Bliss appears to have copied a number of design features from Ezra Gould (pg 69). No markings evident on the machine, although I'll take a closer look next week.

Jeff

Robert Lang · Jul 25, 2009

A very interesting shaper. I do not think it is a Bliss. This shaper is earlier.

Rob

peter · Jul 25, 2009

Could that be a Gould? If not , Pretty close.

Robert Lang · Jul 25, 2009

It is very close to a Gould, but it lacks one feature that all early Gould shapers had(that I have seen) and that is how the tool head is clamped to the ram.

This is a really nice shaper. I wish it was mine. I am glad to see it saved.

Rob

IrbyJones · Jul 25, 2009

Looks like one of the very early Gould machines (Ezra or Gould Bros), like someone I know in Kentucky has. Should have the name cast into it, though, maybe on the legs.

Irby

Andy FitzGibbon · Jul 25, 2009

Many of the construction details are similar to those on the Hewes & Phillips shaper I had. Both Gould and H&P were in Newark, NJ, so this one was probably made in that area as well.
Andy

Jeff_G · Jul 25, 2009

Andy FitzGibbon said:
Both Gould and H&P were in Newark, NJ, so this one was probably made in that area as well.
Andy

Bliss was in Brooklyn. Here's a brief biography from the American Precision Museum.

Robert Lang · Jul 25, 2009

Bliss did not work for Gould. Bliss started in the 1860's as Bliss & Williams.

This shaper is not a Bliss and I doubt that it is a Gould.

Rob

PS. Forgot about Mays, his first partner.

Jeff_G · Jul 25, 2009

Robert Lang said:
This shaper is not a Bliss ...

I see a great deal of similarity between our machine and the illustration in Cope. Shape of the table, shape of the saddle way, placement of the openings in the frame, etc. Although to my inexperienced eye, the machine looks older than 1880s. Robert, I don't doubt your assessment, but can you elaborate on your statement? Do you have any illustrations of Bliss shapers that you can post here? We like to have informational write-ups on each of the machines we display; any and all information is helpful.

Thanks,
Jeff

Robert Lang · Jul 26, 2009

Jeff_G,

I see very little similarity.

The Bliss table is the early form of box table. T-slots on the top and on the side and the other side open. Your shaper does not have this or any T-slots on the table.

The saddle T-slots and saddle ways are the same, but other makers used this style also, such as Gould.

The placement and style of the openings in the frame are not the same. The Bliss has(on the pulley side) one square and one rectangle opening at the top and one large square opening at the bottom, by the pulley. Your shaper has five openings(on the pulley side) of different sizes and placements.

The legs are also a different style. Also, your legs are bolted onto the main body. The Bliss legs are cast in one piece with the sides of the main frame.

The Bliss ram ways are square. Yours are dovetail.

The ways for the ram on the Bliss is a separate casting that is bolted onto the two separate sides of the main frame. Yours does not have that.

These are just a few of the differences.

The illustration of the Bliss shaper in Cope's book came from an article in the American Machinist Magazine telling of Bliss's new shaper. As far as I know this was Bliss's first and only shaper made.

Rob

IrbyJones · Jul 26, 2009

I'm looking at a picture I have of the early Goulds. This one is close but not a match. Clapper isn't clamped to ram like Gould. Legs are curved in an arch all the way to the ground, Gould is arched but flared out some on bottom. Gould has two vertical rectangular holes in side. Cross bar on Gould has one lip on front, this has a slot in the middle like the Hewes & Phillips. Table and vise are different form the Gould. Plus, the Goulds had their name cast into the arch of the legs. I'd post the Gould pic, but the machine belongs to another member and I'd like his permission first.

Irby

doc · Jul 26, 2009

hi irby .....post away , no problem .....
wonder if the drive differs from my E Gould .....hardened steel roller actuating the rocker arm ,yoked to ram ......roller is dovetailed onto bull gear & stroke adjusted by loosening the attaching bolt & just moving it as needed....

....the position adjustment stud on top the ram has milled flats opposite each other for the length of stud ...puzzled me till i tried to oil the ram yoke by squirting oil upwards......the flats just carry the oil right down to the yoke....
fwiw....shaper is tooled & in use for projects.....feed screws are reverse of current practice, & that is somewhat of a bother....6 in vise is shopmade from cold rolled....rotates on a center hole & i fabbed 3 clamps to tie it down ......flat belt driven from a DC 3/4 hp & controller ...works well on low sfm's a s well as higher , unlike a lathe w/ out geared lo speeds , since with a shaper at lower sfm , less work is done therefore less HP necessary

best wishes
docn8as

IrbyJones · Jul 27, 2009

Hi Doc,

I thought your ears would start burning when I mentioned Keeentucky.

But I don't have any good pics of yours. The one I have is from another member. I need to e-mail him and see if it's OK to post the pic.

You can send me all the pics of yours you want!

Take care,
Irby

Mcandrew1894 · Jul 27, 2009

Been reading along. I am amazed at the condition of this piece. It would appear very clean. Nice find and thanks for saving her!

Dave

Robert Lang · Sep 19, 2021

I was looking at old Iron Age magazines from 1873 through 1878.
I found the maker of this shaper in an 1877 ad.
It is an A.J. Davis & Co. shaper.
They were located just a block or two down the road from Gould & Eberhardt.

Rob

Robert Lang · Sep 19, 2021

From an 1875 city business directory.
Gould and Davis next door to each other.

Rob

Robert Lang · Sep 19, 2021

Doing some research on Davis.
This is from 1870. Albert J. Davis.
A partner in Pierson, Kinsey & Co. Listed as makers of machinist tools.

Rob

Robert Lang · Sep 20, 2021

In 1868, Pierson, Kinsey & Co. and Gould were in the same building.

Rob

Robert Lang · Sep 20, 2021

I went through the Newark City directories from 1846 to 1890 looking for Albert J. Davis.
A few of the directories were missing.

First listing is 1850, Albert J. Davis, Machinist.

In 1858 he is listed as a grocer.

In 1859 he is listed as a gas fitter with a brother, Andrew.
Davis & Brother.

In 1860, Albert J. Davis, machinist.

In 1866, partners with Pierson, Kinsey & Co.

In 1871 Pierson, Kinsey & Co. gone.
Now just Albert J. Davis, machinist at 93 NJRR Ave.

In 1872 A.J. Davis & Co., with George Ougheltree at 93 NJRR Ave.

In 1873 A.J. Davis & Brother with Charles D.B. Davis at 93 NJRR Ave.

Later in 1875 back to Albert J. Davis, machinist at 93 NJRR Ave.

Later in 1877, A.J. Davis & Co., with J. Frank Davis at 69 NJRR Ave.

In 1883 back to A.J. Davis, machinist at 69 NJRR Ave.

In 1886, last listing for A.J. Davis, machinist.

Rob

discodan · Sep 20, 2021

Robert, thanks for filling in the blanks. Those pictures certainly look like our machine. BTW, if you did not know, Jeff passed of cancer. I have taken over his duties managing the shop at Tuckahoe. I had not seen the picture of the shaper with the electric motor on it. I was thinking of hooking it up to a hit and miss and using it outside during our shows. Thanks for the great info.

Dan

Bliss Shaper 1881 ?

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Diamond

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Hot Rolled

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Hot Rolled

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Attachments

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