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Bradford 16×50 lathe

challenger

Stainless
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Location
Hampstead, NC-S.E. Coast
Can anyone offer an opinion about this lathe make/model. I don't know the age but it is not ancient.
It comes from a motor rebuilding shop and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing? Thanks
 
Thanks!
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My Grandaddy had a large shop with over 20 lathes including one of those. He used to tell everyone he was the last man alive who had run a Bradford. When I was about 12, I asked him what he thought of it. He just smiled knowingly, boxed me on the ears, and said "When you get a little older and wiser, I'll tell you."

When I reached my 16th birthday, he offered to take me to Boystown in Old Mexico to have the ladies there school me in the ways of the world. I told him that while that certainly sounded appealing, I really just wanted to know what he thought of the Bradford. He looked me over for a long time then simply said, "Not yet, boy."

Later in life, I married and had a son whom I named Bradford. In the hospital, I let him be held for the first time by Grandad (now in a wheelchair but still fiesty). As tears of joy ran down me face, I asked Grandad to finally tell me what he thought of the Bradford. He handed the baby back to me and promised he would tell me then very next day.

That night, I made my baby's mama take care of the infant - I could hardly sit still what with knowing the next day I would finally know what Grandad thought of the Bradford!

The next morning, I was at Grandad's bright and early. I pulled up a chair by his bedside and helped him drink some water. He cleared his throat and said, "Boy, let me tell you about the Bradford." Then, he choked up a bit and died.
 
My Grandaddy had a large shop with over 20 lathes including one of those. He used to tell everyone he was the last man alive who had run a Bradford. When I was about 12, I asked him what he thought of it. He just smiled knowingly, boxed me on the ears, and said "When you get a little older and wiser, I'll tell you."

When I reached my 16th birthday, he offered to take me to Boystown in Old Mexico to have the ladies there school me in the ways of the world. I told him that while that certainly sounded appealing, I really just wanted to know what he thought of the Bradford. He looked me over for a long time then simply said, "Not yet, boy."

Later in life, I married and had a son whom I named Bradford. In the hospital, I let him be held for the first time by Grandad (now in a wheelchair but still fiesty). As tears of joy ran down me face, I asked Grandad to finally tell me what he thought of the Bradford. He handed the baby back to me and promised he would tell me then very next day.

That night, I made my baby's mama take care of the infant - I could hardly sit still what with knowing the next day I would finally know what Grandad thought of the Bradford!

The next morning, I was at Grandad's bright and early. I pulled up a chair by his bedside and helped him drink some water. He cleared his throat and said, "Boy, let me tell you about the Bradford." Then, he choked up a bit and died.
Sad. Very sad.
 
My only exposure to Bradford lathes was for one semester of advanced machine shop classes at Brooklyn Technical HS, in about 1966-67. Nothing stands out as noteworthy nor objectionable about the Bradford geared head lathes from that experience. We had a variety of geared head engine lathe in the shops at Brooklyn Tech, so got a chance to run them for however brief a time it was.

The Bradford lathe you picture in your post says a lot. Basically, Bradford was building what I would call a "generic US pattern engine lathe". At that same point in time, the bigger manufacturers like Lodge-and-Shipley, Sidney, Monarch, and the lesser manufacturers like Reed-and-Prentice were all building lathes of the same sort of design and overall appearance. Hendey differed slightly in outer appearance, as did LeBlond.

These were well designed and very well built engine lathes with plenty of iron in them. Internally, there were differences, such as how the headstock gearing was setup for speed changes, whether the gearing was helical or spur (straight cut), whether the gears shifted positions on splined shafts vs use of jaw clutches, whether lubrication was splash, spray, etc.

From what I've seen and run over the past 50 + years, I tend to think these types of engine lathes were built to almost a 'generic' or 'standard' design pattern. They are among the most user-friendly machine tools. They are also extremely rigid with well-designed and massive castings for the beds, headstocks, etc.

I do not know if Bradford flame hardened the beds (as Monarch and some of the other firms did), or whether they used a harder alloy of iron for the beds (as many lathe builders did). Some makers, notably Reed and Prentice, were infamous for their softer beds which wore quickly when compared to their competitors' lathe beds.

If the lathe does not appear to be "beat on", and nothing is broken and all functions work properly, I'd say go for it. Coming out of a motor rebuild shop, this lathe may have seen only lighter usage and was not in a production shop. I'd lift the headstock top cover to check the internal gearing before buying the lathe, if possible.

The lathe is a basic and very solid workhorse. It is one of the least common manufacturer's lathes, but that should not be a detriment in your decision. When we work with old machine tools, we know up front that parts are usually non-existant (unless someone is parting out a similar machine tool), and information may be sketchy.
As I wrote, if the lathe is intact, nothing broken or missing, all functions working properly, I'd jump on it if the price and location were favorable.

This will never be a 'toolroom' lathe, but will turn out some fine work even if you feel a ridge on the bedways and even if there is considerable backlash in the crossfeed and compound. I ran a job on a 1943 Monarch 18" x 72" lathe a couple of years back. That Monarch lathe had been sold to us for scrap price, moved a couple of times, spent 20 + years sitting where it landed in a RR boxcar, and finally wound up in my buddy's shop. I turned a shaft perhaps 36" long with a few different diameters, and was pleased to have about 1/2 thousandth of taper and hit all my diameters dead nuts. Not bad for an old lathe that some would dismiss as too worn, too old, etc. That Monarch has a few very old brazed and welded repairs on some of the levers and brackets, but the main thing is she runs and cuts nice and straight. The Bradford you are interested in will likely be as good a machine tool. I think the generation of lathes that the Bradford lathe was a part of were perhaps the most rugged and best of the US made engine lathes.
 
My only exposure to Bradford lathes was for one semester of advanced machine shop classes at Brooklyn Technical HS, in about 1966-67. Nothing stands out as noteworthy nor objectionable about the Bradford geared head lathes from that experience. We had a variety of geared head engine lathe in the shops at Brooklyn Tech, so got a chance to run them for however brief a time it was.

The Bradford lathe you picture in your post says a lot. Basically, Bradford was building what I would call a "generic US pattern engine lathe". At that same point in time, the bigger manufacturers like Lodge-and-Shipley, Sidney, Monarch, and the lesser manufacturers like Reed-and-Prentice were all building lathes of the same sort of design and overall appearance. Hendey differed slightly in outer appearance, as did LeBlond.

These were well designed and very well built engine lathes with plenty of iron in them. Internally, there were differences, such as how the headstock gearing was setup for speed changes, whether the gearing was helical or spur (straight cut), whether the gears shifted positions on splined shafts vs use of jaw clutches, whether lubrication was splash, spray, etc.

From what I've seen and run over the past 50 + years, I tend to think these types of engine lathes were built to almost a 'generic' or 'standard' design pattern. They are among the most user-friendly machine tools. They are also extremely rigid with well-designed and massive castings for the beds, headstocks, etc.

I do not know if Bradford flame hardened the beds (as Monarch and some of the other firms did), or whether they used a harder alloy of iron for the beds (as many lathe builders did). Some makers, notably Reed and Prentice, were infamous for their softer beds which wore quickly when compared to their competitors' lathe beds.

If the lathe does not appear to be "beat on", and nothing is broken and all functions work properly, I'd say go for it. Coming out of a motor rebuild shop, this lathe may have seen only lighter usage and was not in a production shop. I'd lift the headstock top cover to check the internal gearing before buying the lathe, if possible.

The lathe is a basic and very solid workhorse. It is one of the least common manufacturer's lathes, but that should not be a detriment in your decision. When we work with old machine tools, we know up front that parts are usually non-existant (unless someone is parting out a similar machine tool), and information may be sketchy.
As I wrote, if the lathe is intact, nothing broken or missing, all functions working properly, I'd jump on it if the price and location were favorable.

This will never be a 'toolroom' lathe, but will turn out some fine work even if you feel a ridge on the bedways and even if there is considerable backlash in the crossfeed and compound. I ran a job on a 1943 Monarch 18" x 72" lathe a couple of years back. That Monarch lathe had been sold to us for scrap price, moved a couple of times, spent 20 + years sitting where it landed in a RR boxcar, and finally wound up in my buddy's shop. I turned a shaft perhaps 36" long with a few different diameters, and was pleased to have about 1/2 thousandth of taper and hit all my diameters dead nuts. Not bad for an old lathe that some would dismiss as too worn, too old, etc. That Monarch has a few very old brazed and welded repairs on some of the levers and brackets, but the main thing is she runs and cuts nice and straight. The Bradford you are interested in will likely be as good a machine tool. I think the generation of lathes that the Bradford lathe was a part of were perhaps the most rugged and best of the US made engine lathes.
Many thanks for the input. The location is the main thing that makes me interested in it as I'm only 35 miles away. I've also done business with this company. They rewound a Baldor 5 hp compressor for me plus I've dealt with them a few other times. They are extremely honest, stand up people.
Would you think 3K is a decent price for this lathe?
I can fund a good portion of the purchase by selling my Sheldon 10" exl. Small lathes go for big money in my area and I bet I can get almost 2k for the Sheldon.
Thanks again.
 
I would say 3K is on the high side and only if everything is working. That said if you have work for it and a need for it go ahead and buy it. The only Bradford I ever saw in person was a cone head and was labeled "The Bradford". which I think means the makers were proud of it.
 
I agree that 3K is a highball price. Without knowing the condition of the lathe, even for a lathe of this type in really good condition, $ 3000 would seem a bit high.
It also comes down to what tooling comes with the lathe, and whether it has a taper attachment (I cannot tell from your photo).

$1500-2000 would be a more realistic price for this type/age/size of lathe. Older US made manual engine lathes do not go for a whole lot of money as a rule.

Ask to see the lathe under power (if it can be arranged, possibly with a temporary power cable and alligator clips, which a motor rewind shop should have). Make sure all the speeds of the headstock work and sound OK, no 'snick' of a busted or damaged gear tooth or teeth. Try the power feeds in both directions along the bed as well as the cross feed, and then engage the half nuts. If all works as it should, that is reason to pursue the purchase of this lathe.

Next, I'd do a very basic check of bedway wear. Find the carriage binder (clamp) screw and bring the carriage so it is up close to the headstock. Turn the binder screw with your fingers until you feel a very slight drag when you go to move the carriage with the handwheel. Move the carriage with the handwheel towards the tailstock.
Chances are at some point along the bed, the drag or bind on the carriage will increase and may increase to the point that you can't move the carriage. This tells the tale of where the bedways are most worn. If you can move the carriage over its travel on the bed with the binder screw very lightly tightened with you fingers, the bedways have very light wear on them for that age of lathe.

I am sure this is a substantial lathe, and unlikely it was mistreated or run in hard production. It is a big old workhorse, so be sure it is what you want and have need for if you get rid of your 10" Sheldon lathe. I find that a smaller 10" lathe with higher spindle speeds and 5C collets is a very handy and 'go to' kind of lathe, rather take all lathe jobs to a bigger engine lathe. Bear in mind also that the Bradford Lathe was designed and built at a time when high speed steel tool bits were mostly all that was used. Cemented carbide tool bits were in use, but not so widespread. As a result, spindle speed range on the Bradford Lathe may be a bit on the lower side for using indexable carbide tools. I also see that the sellers have the original 'lantern' style toolpost with a tool holder for HSS tool bits. I 'came up' using HSS tooling, and freehand grinding lathe tools from HSS blanks is something I've done since I was a teenager. Truth be known, you will be surprised at how well HSS toolbits work, how much stock they can hog off, and how nice a surface finish they produce. The added advantage is HSS toolbits are inexpensive and you can grind each end of a blank to form a different toolbit. They are easily ground on a common bench grinder with aluminum oxide wheels, and can be re-ground to create form tools for O ring grooves, snap retainer ring grooves, radius's for filleting at the roots of shoulders, or threading tools. Do not underestimate HSS toolbits and the lantern toolpost.

I think the lathe will be a good old workhorse for you, and up to anything you want to do on it.
 
Thanks for the input.
I'm surprised that this lathe is priced high at 3k but I'm not questioning the valuation. It seems like a beast of a lathe but may not be worth the investment.
 
I take the view that, particularly with older US Made machine tools, there is a somewhat limited pool of them and no new ones are being manufactured. It is also a factor of whether a person has a real need for a particular machine tool, such as to support a going shop or business, or to fulfill some ideas for projects that they may have wanted to do for many years- not necessarily for any sort of business. Sometimes, although an old US Made machine tool may be priced a bit on the high side, if it is what a person needs, and is in good condition and in short distance of where they are going to relocate it, then biting the bullet and going the extra bucks (assuming it is not outlandishly priced) is often the best course of action. Waiting for the 'right' deal on the 'right' machine tool to come along may take some years, or may never happen. I like to say: "All of life is a compromise, and if we get a good portion of what we wanted, we should consider ourselves well-treated." So it is with old/used US made machine tools. None of us knows how many good years we have been allotted in this life, and waiting for the 'right' time to do many things results in missed opportunities due to age, health, economic climate, and many more reasons.

If the Bradford lathe is close to the OP's home/shop, and is in good condition, if the OP needs a heavy/larger capacity engine lathe, then this may be 'the' opportunity. I'd suggest the OP talking to the seller, explaining what price range he had in mind and what similar older US made engine lathes are priced at. The seller may have looked on eBay, or looked at some used machine tool dealers' listing to get an idea of price. A bit of polite and gentlemanly bargaining is not out of line when buying a used machine tool, just as some of us tend to bargain when we buy a vehicle or other major purchases. It was traditional or customary to bargain when buying used machine tools from the notorious used machine tool dealers who were basically somewhere between pirates and horse-traders. The seller may wait awhile before realizing no one is stepping up to the plate to buy that lathe at $3,000.00. I'd make an offer, and if the seller does not take it immediately, ask that the seller call if he reconsiders. There has to be some sort of reason why the lathe is for sale. It is (assumed) a good running machine tool. Reasons for selling may include:
-need the space in the shop for some new machinery or process equipment
-not enough work to justify keeping that lathe
-the last machinist retired and no one in the workforce is up for using that lathe
-type of work the shop is now doing has eliminated the need for that lathe
-some bean counter in the front office has decided the lathe is simply too old to keep as active equipment, may have no more depreciation to figure at tax time, etc.
-the insurance inspector has determined because the lathe is old and without safety features such as emergency stop/panic buttons and modern 'bells and whistles',
the old lathe is now a liability and has to go.

Plainly, there has to be some reason that lathe is up for sale. It is most likely not due to it being damaged or worn beyond any use. Some compelling reason is causing the owners of the motor rewind shop to sell that lathe. Needing to move it out, they will likely take a lower offer on it, but it may take a little time to come to a meeting of the minds.
 
Thanks, fwiw the lathe was replaced with a larger model.
Truth be told, I don't need this lathe but I do WANT it [emoji16]. Kinda like I don't need my guns but I like collecting them. Heck, I don't need many things I own.
Thanks for the input.
 
I could kind-of see $3k if the machine is being sold by a machinery broker and is in excellent condition. My 12" ATW was $1900, in almost good but readily improvable condition.

+1 on getting the larger machine- just had my ATW show up to be about 1" too small on swing for some faceplate work. Would have fit on my old 14" american lol Had to cut the corners off... icky
 
A very capable machine!

I like that slide-out bench- very cool. No room in front of my lathe for something like that but I did make up a tray that rests on the ways; good for holding tools, calipers etc, and small enough to be placed either side of the tailstock depending on the op.
 








 
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