Bradford Metalmaster - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 71
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Mountains of Washington State, USA
    Posts
    441
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    140

    Default

    Great machine, I ran one during a part time job in the late 1960's putting myself through college. Would love to have it now in my shop!

    Only problem with the machine, the top cover leaked oil when running. Pulled the cover and made a new gasket from a roll of gasket material I found in the tool room and solved the problem.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Well the old gal came home with me today! Got it loaded on a tilt deck trailer and hauled it home with my land cruiser. I started getting the major components off and getting things cleaned up. Noticed a few fasteners missing here and there. I think this was repainted once in its past? I see a green color on top with a dark grey beneath it. I do see some sign of original scraping or maybe flaking my untrained eye cannot tell the difference. Will try and get some better pictures tomorrow.

    The compound and cross slide took some serious effort to get off. This came out of a furniture factory so there was some serious gunk and an apparent lack of lubrication. I have a dial indicator coming in the mail so by the end of the week I will get some numbers for wear.

    Not really sure where i am going with this project at this point but i figure getting everything clean and re-lubed while identifying any broken stuff is a good first step.

    pdvuwwym.jpg
    kz6muirm.jpg

  3. Likes Greg Menke, garyphansen, Frank R liked this post
  4. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Got more work done today. Drained the oil in the apron and got the compound cleaned up. I put a straight edge on the bed rails and with everything all cleaned up i was unable to get a .0015" feeler inserted at any point on the horizontal or triangular portions. There is one very very small place just in front of the spindle where i got the feeler about 1/4" inserted but it may have been from a ding in the rails. I took a finish cut file and very carefully knocked down the various dings i was able to find.

    Im not sure how well the picture shows up but the second image shows what i think is some kind of flaking or scraping on the bed. Maybe a more educated eye can enlighten me.

    I think things look pretty promising.

    However, there was some neglect to this machine such as missing/mismatched fasteners, missing oil ports (buckets?), improper lubrication, and the compound was 100% crashed into the spindle at some point in time as a bite was taken out of the corner of it.

    My hope is that this abuse came in the later years of this machines life at the hands of unskilled labor at the furniture factory it came out of.

    More to follow.

    lxqgxm6l.jpg
    jxaxob3l.jpg
    lowp9dll.jpg
    ibnkbncl.jpg
    x01s3itl.jpg

  5. Likes Greg Menke liked this post
  6. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Got the saddle all broken down and cleaned up. I think i may have found the real carnage!
    ldi3zksl.jpg

    The middle section of the front side of the saddle where it rides the pyramid portion of the bed way has some real deep scouring. Im not sure if this is a result of the casting or if there was so much abrasive junk and such a lack of lubrication that it ended up like this.
    y9cx4del.jpg

    The far side of the saddle also has some visible wear. I tried to capture the difference in the wear area from the original material height. On each end of the saddle you can catch a nail on it. And in the center it seems to be level with the rest of the wear area.

    Any input from the group would be greatly appreciated!

    vwhpopol.jpg

  7. Likes Greg Menke liked this post
  8. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    4,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    419
    Likes (Received)
    700

    Default

    Don't despair! On a big lathe like that such wear will have less effect than it looks like. My old 14" swing American had a huge ridge on the carriage ways, had fallen over backwards and broken the saddle in half- inexpertly repaired by the prev owner, and it would hold dimensions quite well at various places in its travel.

    Your wear looks not unexpected, but please don't start filing things down just yet. OK to dress burrs etc by sliding a clean and sharp fine file along the surface to knock them off- no pressure so you don't start cutting deeply or filing off corners. Be careful of stones, the goal is to knock off the burrs not cut. The grooves aren't hurting much, its a wide contact surface. THey can even be somewhat beneficial, acting to conduct oil along the bearing surface. But- make sure there are no raised edges or bits of stuff stuck in them which would continue to abrade the ways.

    Look carefully into the various gears- broken teeth and so on. Likewise bronze bushings. I had several of both to repair on mine. I think you'll have an excellent lathe once its back together and running.

  9. Likes FJsapper liked this post
  10. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Menke View Post
    Don't despair! On a big lathe like that such wear will have less effect than it looks like. My old 14" swing American had a huge ridge on the carriage ways, had fallen over backwards and broken the saddle in half- inexpertly repaired by the prev owner, and it would hold dimensions quite well at various places in its travel.

    Your wear looks not unexpected, but please don't start filing things down just yet. OK to dress burrs etc by sliding a clean and sharp fine file along the surface to knock them off- no pressure so you don't start cutting deeply or filing off corners. Be careful of stones, the goal is to knock off the burrs not cut. The grooves aren't hurting much, its a wide contact surface. THey can even be somewhat beneficial, acting to conduct oil along the bearing surface. But- make sure there are no raised edges or bits of stuff stuck in them which would continue to abrade the ways.

    Look carefully into the various gears- broken teeth and so on. Likewise bronze bushings. I had several of both to repair on mine. I think you'll have an excellent lathe once its back together and running.
    Thanks for the input! I have done as you said and knocked down the burrs on precision surfaces with a file.

  11. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    So one other major issue i have noted is the absence of a carriage lock pawl. I have the bolt itself...but no actual mechanism that might act on the bed or the carriage teeth.

    Could any of the local Bradford aficionados share photos of what this part might look like?

  12. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    31,703
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FJsapper View Post
    So one other major issue i have noted is the absence of a carriage lock pawl. I have the bolt itself...but no actual mechanism that might act on the bed or the carriage teeth.

    Could any of the local Bradford aficionados share photos of what this part might look like?

    Part #47 on page 34. Note it fits 12, 14 and 16" (!)

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2316/16884.pdf

    Likely the simplest sort of block with a tapped hole for your bolt

    Side nearest you contacts saddle and side furthest from you contacts underside of bed way

    Think of it as an upside down suitably configured milling machine clamp / strap

    It goes without saying that things would have to come apart to even see what was wanted in the way of dimensions

  13. Likes FJsapper liked this post
  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Part #47 on page 34. Note it fits 12, 14 and 16" (!)

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2316/16884.pdf

    Likely the simplest sort of block with a tapped hole for your bolt

    Side nearest you contacts saddle and side furthest from you contacts underside of bed way

    Think of it as an upside down suitably configured milling machine clamp / strap

    It goes without saying that things would have to come apart to even see what was wanted in the way of dimensions
    Great advice! The last few days have been busy.

    I got tired of yutting every OZ of this big bastard around so I made a unistrut trolley above my workspace. The idea is i can hoist from the lathe to my toolbox workspace (topped with 8/4 hard maple for extra class). Still waiting for a few odds and ends to be fully functional but having the overhead support was good enough to get the apron off.

    lakvi3gl.jpg

    I set up a strap to hold the lead screw while i slowly disassembled everything.

    wskinw2l.jpg

    Once the apron was off i removed all the handles. I dont think I'll be going any deeper than this. All the gears look good and nothing seems to be out of place. I was able to give myself a good education in taper pin removal! Unfortunately I drove one pin about 1/4" in the wrong direction before realizing it. I ended up having to drill a 1/8" hole in the shaft in order to relive pressure and was able to pound it out.

    ao2hqj9l.jpg

    Things are coming along nicely.

    While i go through the process of cleaning things up i am going to start figuring out the power situation. I am leaning towards a VFD. I attached a picture of the motor data plate. I cant seem to figure out what the amp rating is on it. I see 440v, 3ph, 3hp, 1200rpm. What am i missing?

    84is6zol.jpg

  15. Likes dundeeshopnut liked this post
  16. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    284
    Likes (Received)
    98

    Default

    Nice machine. Observation. The walls, [and the floor too come to think of it], looks WAAAY too clean and pristine. No marks, oil stains, grinder dust, or even screw/nail holes! What work do you do in it? Don't worry though, once you get "Brad" cranked up, he WILL mark his territory quite well.

  17. Likes FJsapper liked this post
  18. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dundeeshopnut View Post
    Nice machine. Observation. The walls, [and the floor too come to think of it], looks WAAAY too clean and pristine. No marks, oil stains, grinder dust, or even screw/nail holes! What work do you do in it? Don't worry though, once you get "Brad" cranked up, he WILL mark his territory quite well.
    Yeah its a pretty new house...the lady we bought from was like 100 years old and most likely had hobbies related to knitting.

  19. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    I made a separate post in the VFD/conversion sub thread for some specific technical questions (Bradford Metalmaster 440v to 220v)

    Work continues. I got my overhead trolley a bit more completed and pulled my motor. The plan right now going forward is to replace the old motor (which cannot be re-wired, see above link) with a fresh(er) 220v 3ph. The cost to get the motor re-wound is likely more than the cost of a used motor. We'll see what i can find local.

    Here is a great link on motor frame size. Very useful for figuring out what to do about replacing a vintage motor with something more modern. https://www.powertransmission.com/is...frame-size.pdf

    Cleaning and painting continues. I didnt plan on painting but by the time i get the gunk off the paint generally comes with it. So i guess ill have a nice shiny machine when im finished.

  20. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    284
    Likes (Received)
    98

    Default

    I too have learned that if you are going to paint it "someday when I have a chance",,,DO IT NOW! Even if it gets scratched [I know,,,HORRORS] when you are "tuning" it back to specs you can touch it up if you are really anal retentive. Once it is running "real good", you will never disassemble it for paint unless you have WAAAY too much time on your hands.

  21. Likes FJsapper liked this post
  22. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Lots going on but i dont want to bore everyone with the daily "i cleaned ancient gunk" updates.

    Got my headstock stripped of the levers, belt covers, pulleys, and quick change gearbox. Thwarted at every turn by grime and taper pins. These little fellas are super soft. So much so that even filing the end flat and drilling relief holes on the exit side is not enough. Ive been having to basically drill out the entire pin several times. Unfortunately none of them are ever convenient enough for me to tap and try to use some kind of puller on.

    29gfgqhl.jpg
    5uzzmw4l.jpg
    ihifhopl.jpg

    The quick change box was particularly nasty. I ended up hitting it with purple power and then the pressure washer. Once all the gunk was off it was much easier to start seeing how this thing comes apart. The PDF manual for this thing has a schematic of the major components which has proven essential to deconstruction.

    fgcqiwal.jpg
    fvudjvkl.jpg

    Taking a trip for the weekend so unfortunately progress will stop for a few days.


    Does anyone know the original motor RPM values for these machines? The motor i took out was 1200RPM but no idea if that is original. I also would assume that some of that speed is reduced by the gear train. My data plate states 400 RPM as the max stated speed but looking at pictures online of other machines i have seen numbers as high as 800. Would it be outrageous to consider stepping up the motor RPM? Maybe 1800?

  23. Likes dundeeshopnut liked this post
  24. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Munster, In. USA
    Posts
    2,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    539
    Likes (Received)
    831

    Default

    Oil for the lathe:
    lathe-oiling-1-.jpglathe-oiling-2-.jpg
    John

  25. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quick change box has been removed and stripped of all but a few bushings.

    zmukcbgl.jpg

    One thing i found interesting is that the bronze bushings have no provision for allowing oil from the oil passages to reach the shaft. No oil grooves or holes whatsoever. Is that normal? I really dont understand how oil could possibly teleport through 1/8" of bronze and reach the shafts. Doesnt sound right to me at all.

    pk4eehnl.jpg


    Another interesting thing is that the "manual" that shows a breakdown for this lathe states that there should be "ball bearing N.D. #7504" at these junctions and not bushings. Perhaps the bushings were upgraded in later models or since this machine serial indicates 1942 production the bushings were substituted due to war production needs. Thoughts?

    Would it be worth my effort to replace these bushings with some that have oil holes and grooves? Alternatively i think i can source some needle bearings for almost the same price.

  26. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    4,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    419
    Likes (Received)
    700

    Default

    Definitely should have holes in the bushings communicating to the oil tubes & passages. Wouldn't hurt to make something of an oil groove spanning about 80% of the bearing length to spread the oil out a bit. If you get a good bearing fit and ream and use a fairly thick oil the lubrication will stick around a while.

    You can put in the oil grooves with the lathe; bushing goes the the chuck, set up a boring bar w/ cutter formed to cut as the carriage is cranked towards the headstock (with the spindle stationary), depth-of-cut via the cross-slide. This is the old "lathe-as-shaper" gag. But its a useful technique sometimes... I put keyways into two tractor wheel castings that way.

    My old ATW's headstock input shaft employed a shaft reservoir. The shaft was drilled from the end down to the journal region where a cross hole was drilled out to the surface and end of the shaft plugged with a screw. When the oiler was filled, some would end up "leaking" into the shaft, providing additional lubrication capacity. Don't know how effective the system was but it was fancy and interesting to consider.

  27. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Munster, In. USA
    Posts
    2,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    539
    Likes (Received)
    831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FJsapper View Post
    .... the bronze bushings have no provision for allowing oil from the oil passages to reach the shaft. No oil grooves or holes whatsoever. Is that normal? I really dont understand how oil could possibly teleport through 1/8" of bronze and reach the shafts. Doesnt sound right to me at all.
    Might be sintered bronze bearings - oil impregnated. They do not need an oil source. If they show wear just replace with same.
    John

  28. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Damascus, MD
    Posts
    1,609
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4836
    Likes (Received)
    908

    Default

    Like John, I think they are "Olite" bearings. At least in theory, the oil should wick to the inside through the porosity of the sinthered bronze. The concern with old ones is that gummed-up oil might have clogged such porosity.
    If there is no appreciable wear, I would rinse them a few times in kerosene or Diesel fuel, then in a relatively light oil. Otherwise, replace them with new ones.
    Clearly, adding an oil through passage and an oil groove (which should not reach the very edge of the bearing, otherwise it would be just an oil drain), like Greg suggests, shouldn't harm.

    There is practically no chance that regular bronze bearings without oil passages would have survived so long without tremendous wear and scoring.

    Paolo

  29. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    31,703
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Found this - may be helpful

    brad-apron-instruct.jpg


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •