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Brown and Sharpe MFG Co Cylindrical Grinding Machine Needs Home, ca 1916

PumpkinGuy

Plastic
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Hi everybody. I hope I'm posting this in the right place. The for sale section was pretty emphatic about antique tools being prohibited. This is as much an adoption as a sale anyway, in terms of my intention.

I work occasionally with a wonderful little machine shop in Pawcatuck CT that's been in business in the same building, with some of the same machinery, for over a century. They're hard working, nice, adaptive guys maintaining a family business whose customer base looks radically different than it did 100 years ago. They needed to add a couple new computer controlled machines, and without a postage stamp of extra real estate in their building, some of the old stuff needed to go. I pulled up one day to find two beautiful old belt driven machines out on the curb. The owners told me that they had tried numerous avenues to find homes for both, even contacting industrial themed bars etc, but had been unsuccessful. The larger one, a surface grinder, had been damaged badly during lifting, but the smaller cylindrical grinder was in good shape. They were headed to the trash, and although I don't know much about the belt drive world, they were too beautiful not to try to save, so I turned my day around, and made a deal with the owner to buy and move the cylindrical grinding machine for scrap value, $100.

I briefly dreamt about using it one day, but it's just not a reasonable thing for me to keep in my life right now. I have so many other projects, work, hobbies, relationships, and very limited resources, not the least of which is storage space. To continue storing this machine in my neighbors barn for the possibility that I might one day set up a belt driven shop and need a cylinder grinder is unreasonable. But I want to find it an owner that can use it, or at least display it properly, and knowledgeably.

Its roughly 4 feet wide and tall, and two deep. It's set up somewhat like a lathe, a sliding deck on top of a tall cabinet, with two movable rotating pointed holders to hold the spinning work, but the tool that comes in to the side of the work is a grinding wheel. I was made by the Brown and Sharpe manufacturing company of Providence RI, and supposedly bought by the shop that sold it to me in 1916. Patent dates cast in range from 1897-1908. It was in good condition when I bought it, with evidence of recent use and respectful maintenance. Things are generally tight and smooth, and seem to all be present, though I really wouldn't know. Unfortunately, within about a week of moving into the barn, condensation that formed on the machine each morning caused alot of very light surface rust. It's just that very first stage of rust, orange powder on the surface that can be wiped or brushed away, but it impacts the look as it sits.

I'm interested in any info I can get about what type of parts a machine like this would've made or fixed, and I want to get it to a new owner. Is it really just scrap? Is there more value than that in it to the right person? All I need out of it is the $100 I put in, but if there's more than that in it, I could certainly use it. What can you all tell me?

Thanks, Alexgrinder.jpg
 
Nice to see another survivor out there in what looks like nearly original condition .
I hope someone can help you give it a new home.
Did you happen to save the overhead line shafting that goes with it ?
That would make it special since most of the others shown on some other threads on this forum were newer and not line shaft driven.
I still have the one in my thread .
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...1/?highlight=Brown+Sharpe+Cylindrical+Grinder
It was sold and then the buyer decided not to take it.
There was no overhead set up with mine as the pervious owner planned to covert it to individual motor drives.
Here are links to some of the other threads
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...4/?highlight=Brown+Sharpe+Cylindrical+Grinder

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...9/?highlight=Brown+Sharpe+Cylindrical+Grinder

You can read about one being crated up for export showing some of the flat belt pulleys and counter shaft hanger secured in the crate .
Scroll down one page to see the pictures.
Canadian machinery and metalworking

You can see the overhead Drive arrangement shown here .
Photobucket
click right to see other photos .
You can see other photos here at least for now in case clicking right takes you to more advertising on Photobucket.
http://s220.photobucket.com/user/JEChristie/library/?sort=3&page=13

Regards,
Jim
 
My #4 is 30 years "newer" and does better than me. Exactly the same mechanisms for table traverse and cross feeding

Its a little larger and more self contained, but the same idea

Great old pub by B&S on VM

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2185/3871.pdf
 

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I don't know what a countershaft is, but all I have is what you see. The old brick shop has dozens of disused shafts, pulleys, belts, etc running all over their ceiling. The shop is very much still in use though, and still in the original family. I don't see them being very interested in tearing apart their ceiling or their day.
 
Any one who would want to restore the grinder to run with a line shaft would have a sizeable but not impossible job to re create the countershaft with all the pulleys and hangers of the proper size.
It would be much easier if the previous owners were willing to sell the original setup and take it out or allow someone to take it out for them if they have no further need for it .
It should look about as shown in the drawing in the link I posted above.
Photobucket
You have done well to save the machine and It would be a shame if and the overhead counter shaft and associated parts were left to go for scrap.
It would be quite something to see in operation in its original configuration.

I wish that I would have had the drive for mine also but it was long gone some 40 years before I got it.
If you have more than one interested buyer for your machine I would be willing to let mine go to a good home as well but mine has no overhead drive or proper tailstock.
I had found a tailstock for the person who was supposed to take mine but I don’t think they ever did anything about it and it probably went for scrap.
Regards,
Jim
 
I have a B&S No 1 similar to this but not line shaft driven.
It may have been built around 1920-30
It is complete but missing the tailstock.
I would be very interested in either of the tailstocks mentioned if they become or are still available.
regards David
 
Scans from 1920 edition of Construction and Use of Universal Grinding Machines
 

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Attached is a letter from Brown and Sharpe to the previous owner of my machine showing the as designed head stock and feed driving cone pulley R.P.M. in case it it be comes un available on Photobucket again some day .
I didn’t check to see if it was mentioned in the links posted by John.
 

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Would you be willing to ship this machine? IE: get it secured to a sturdy skid and provide shipping weight and dimensions (I see a forklift in the background, which I assume is available for loading...)

I've got a couple other line-shaft driven machines that I've been piecing back together (B&S #12 production horizontal mill, and Cincinnati Universal Tool and Cutter Grinder). If you can obtain the counter-shaft, that will definitely help the end user put it back into service.

IMO the age doesn't have as much bearing on the usefulness of this machine as it's completeness and condition. It'll require more set-up than the newer machines with built in motors, and OSHA won't like all the exposed moving parts and belts so it would need to be in a personal shop or have some guarding made, but once it's running it still has the same potential. We've got a really old company/shop (1858) that's lost a lot of the old tools and machinery over the years, so I've been trying to fill in the blanks as able.
 
Any idea what it weighs? I'm not far away but pretty lacking in machinery moving equipment. I've also sworn off getting anything too big... the shop is pretty full now.

However, NB Naegle (above) is ahead of me so if you are open to shipping it, I defer to him. Otherwise, send me a PM and I'll think about how I could move it.
 
I don't know what a countershaft is, but all I have is what you see. The old brick shop has dozens of disused shafts, pulleys, belts, etc running all over their ceiling. The shop is very much still in use though, and still in the original family. I don't see them being very interested in tearing apart their ceiling or their day.

The countershaft is all the pulleys shafts and clutches that are on the ceiling that take the power from the line shaft and direct it to the varices places that it's its needed on the grinder. workhead, wheelhead, powerfeeds, coolant pump.

Its also the most important parts that you need to get to set up the grinder. Otherwise you just have a bunch of #2 heavy iron.
 
We'll have to see if the OP gets back to us. Pawcatuck is just over the line from Westerly, RI, at the southern end of the satte. but, RI is so small that no place is much more than an hour frm any other place if the traffic is moving.
 
Avery nice machine for Od grinding and to be used as a tool and cutter grinder. The older flat work table allows easy use of many fixtures so a very nice design..

So much like the B&S 13 grinder you may use the 13 manual to see many of its uses.
Many over head shaft machines can be adapted to a mounted motor...

Some of the old wheels are hard to find and some of the old grinders make changing wheels difficult..


Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co. - Publication Reprints - Brown and Sharpe #13 Universal and Tool Grinder | VintageMachinery.org
 
WOW, in the neighborhood of a ton?! That would not have been my guess, I had approximately half that in mind. I hope we used my neighbors loader to offload it.. not my little Ford tractor. I can't remember.. that would have been seriously pushing it though, more than I've ever knowingly lifted with mine. I brought in a WF & John Barnes 75 ton cap. adjustable screw press a couple years ago with mine, and now I'm wondering what that weighs. That was all my Ford could keep off the ground.

Anyway, thank you for the illustrated explanations of what a countershaft is. I had looked through the photos before my last response, but not knowing the first thing about this type of machinery, I didn't know what to look at. I was conceptually familiar with the way power was transmitted back in those days, but didn't know that the countershaft assembly would be anywhere near as complicated as the one pictured. That's a belt driven transmission, with several PTO's! Seeing it, and being all too familiar with the way our society treats things with some age on them, I can imagine there is some urgency around this issue with you guys. I'll get in touch with the owners and see what I can do. I was picturing a shaft or two and a few pulleys, and assuming that those would be largely customized in a new shop setting anyway, based on space and location, and drive RPM.

I would be willing and able to crate and load the machine (I'd also be interested in taking a trip down to Texas, I've never been), but I'm not willing to lose money by paying to ship it myself, I'm not sure what you had in mind?

I'll look into the countershaft and get back to you guys here, it seems like I'd be doing a disservice to the future of the machine to not make that my priority in this pursuit.
 
I wouldn’t have thought the machine its self was that heavy either since it seemed to lift much easier with the pallet jack than some of my other machines that I thought weighed about a ton.
You can see some more data on page 2 here,
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2185/18319.pdf
I was guessing that the counter shaft may weigh close to 500 lbs. and so it is .
Quite a piece of machinery on its own.
 








 
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