Brown and Sharpe No. 13 - Help with converting back to base motor-driven spindle
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  1. #1
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    Default Brown and Sharpe No. 13 - Help with converting back to base motor-driven spindle

    Gentlemen,

    For those who have a Brown and Sharpe No 13 Universal and Tool Grinder prior to 1952 that uses oil cups and drives the spindle using a flat belt powered by the motor in the base (i.e. before they changed over to ball bearings, gear driven table feed selector, pump-driven lubrication, and spindle powered by an adjacent motor). Your machine should ideally look exactly like this (as close to 1943 as possible):

    my_13.jpg

    I wish to convert this machine BACK to a flat-belt-driven spindle but the pulleys (and tensioner?) upon which this belt rides have been removed. I have some or possibly all of them in a box that came with the machine, but lacking any kind of documentation for this model, I don't know what is needed inside the base. I have one pulley that rides on an oil-cup lubed journal extending from a flange with three screw holes, and the side of the machine still has the fasteners in the hole in the casting from where I believe this pulley was removed. Beside that, there is another hole in the casting where likely another pully goes, but I don't know what that one should look like.

    If you would please, could you take a photo of the pulley arrangement inside the base of your machine so I can piece back together the belt-drive mechanism? Also, one parts manual I believe described the belt as 1-1/4 wide and 118" long;

    Does this single belt loop around the motor and up through the column using two pulleys to guide the belt basically at right angles from the motor up through the column? How does the belt remained tensioned as the spindle rides up and down on the column?

    Thank you for your help.


    Torin...

  2. #2
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    Torin,

    I took some pictures of our B & S No. 13 drive system. I don't know if they'll be much help since the belt was removed and a separate motor was installed on the column for driving the motor.bs13overview.jpgbs13driveguts1.jpgbs13driveguts2.jpgbs13driveguts3.jpgbs13tensioner.jpg

    Sorry about the quality, the grinder is sitting in one of our cold storage areas with terrible lighting.

  3. #3
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    Maybe helpful on motor drive

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2185/18196.pdf

    Earlier motor drive covered

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2185/20033.pdf

    have fun

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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamKong View Post
    I took some pictures of our B & S No. 13 drive system.
    CamKong, they were helpful in that they confirm just how many parts I'm missing to try and reconstruct the base-motor driven spindle. In particular, the idle arm that sticks out the back. My machine has a flat panel instead of the bulbous protrusion that covers the idler-tension arm.

    Since making this request, I have since resolved to use (and have purchased) a 2HP TEFC motor to sit atop the column, which is the way B&S went with newer models, and the way most people with these old machines have done too. No sense in fighting it.

    My machine came with a small 1/2HP motor mounted on the column driving a wheel-adapter-and-pulley extension on one side, and an extended arbour for surface grinding on the other. The problem with having a fixed wheel adapter is that it is not as easy to switch wheels.

    My original thought was to drive the spindle from the base and get back the two original tapers at either end of the spindle, but now I plan to make my own 3TPF arbor + pulley hybrid extension instead. Now that I have a cylindrical grinder, making a new (and accurately ground) spindle adapter will be easy.

    Thank you for the pictures. Your efforts, greatly appreciated, further support my decision to move ahead with the column-mounted motor.


    Torin...

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    I think the column mounted motor is a better idea too. When we get around to refurbishing our No.13 we'll probably upgrade the current spindle drive to a 1-2 HP motor with VFD. I'm not sure if you're interested but I'll upload a pic of what the previous owner did to change it over to a column mounted motor drive.bs13spindledrive.jpg

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    After a few weeks of cleaning the machine, repairing missing/broken oil cups, repairing a leak in the casting beneath one the oil roller reservoirs, removing/cleaning the table, de-gunkifying all the attachments, lubricating everything, and finally hooking up power, I watched as the machine quietly hummed and clacked back and forth between the table limit dogs. I am quite happy now that everything is working.

    Next step is to mount a 2HP column-mounted motor, wire it into the right side of the machine with an Ever-lok connector I just bought off eBay, and then I'll be ready to start grinding.

    While replacing a broken oil cup on the base, I noticed on the back of the headstock where the spindle passes through the casting, there is a 1/4" hole open to the world. I didn't like the idea that this hole could fill with debris, so while ordering a replacement cup for the broken one, I also ordered one for this hole.

    replacement-oil-cup.jpg

    Does your headstock have an oil cup in this location? This oiler doesn't seem to be as thirsty as the rest on this machine; it fills quickly and doesn't drain. Since I have no lubrication instructions, I'm not sure what to make of this. Could have felt in there, but I can't see well enough. I would expect it to require spindle oil (100 seconds vs 300) probably, but how much and how often? The driveshaft oilers definitely do have felt inside beneath the cups, but the oil goes through much more rapidly.

    The motors also take a LOT of spindle oil (well, initially anyway). As if they hadn't been oiled in years. Are they designed to store oil for a while? Or should they leak out after a few days/weeks? How often is one supposed to oil the bearings of a motor of this age - daily? weekly? monthly? yearly?

    One last headstock question - what sizes of pulleys do you run on either side of the headstock driveshaft? I have a small one on the left (about 1.5" diam), and a 4" diam on the right too large to fit the same belt. I will have to make tapered pulley to suit.


    Torin...

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    I have a 13 that is complete if you need pictures just holler...

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    I think 2 hp is over kil for a 13 grinder. I have a cincinatti 32 with a 1 hp motor and a flat belt to the OD of one wheel mount. I have seen sohp made wheel mounts with a V belt groove for a V belt. I do have an extra 13 grinder bearinged spindle and a a 13 grinde plane bearing spindle both with the v belts pully at one end..
    Guess I need to start thinking about sell both as not likely to need them with now being mostly retie.

    Good to plan on low and high speed, perhaps 3400-3600 and around 5 or 6k. if for OD grinding.

  10. #9
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    Michiganbuck,

    I was originally looking for a 1.5HP motor to match what the manufacturer installed, but a friend (who wanted a 3600RPM motor offered me his practically brand new Leeson 2HP TEFC for a price I couldn't refuse. As for spindle speed, I have 7 and 8" wheels with a max of 3600, so I will run a 2:1 pulley to drive at 3600.

    I don't have an ID grinder attachment, so I'm considering repurposing a spare Dumore post-grinder spindle and adapting it to mount on the face of the spindle using the t-slots, then I'll need to make some pulleys to drive it.

    I would be interested to hear what you want for your #13 bearing'ed spindle with v-groove. PM me.


    Torin...


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