Carroll-Jamieson Lathe

Fender · Apr 17, 2006

I just bought this lathe and brought it back from West Virginia. It is approx 16x48 and has serial number 4037. I would appreciate hearing from any owners of similar lathes as to history, etc. and to compare notes.
Fender
Lathe Photo1
Lathe Photo2
Lathe Photo3

menace · Apr 18, 2006

fender, nice machine! I have a Carrol+Jamieson 14x48 conehead ser# 492. It looks like our beds are the same, mines about 6 ft long weighs about a ton (really) The aprons and carrage,cross slide, compound etc. etc.are close enough, although mine only has the leadscrew to drive both feeds and half nuts so the other lever is missing and my T-slots are at 90* to yours! Theres a group on yahoo with no activity, join over there and post a lot of pics, I finally figured how to download pics to yahoo

menace · Apr 18, 2006

Didn't finish the post and hit the mouse by mistake! Maybe the group on yahoo can wake up! I've tried to get some interest here in the past about my machine but it doesn't seem like theres to many, if any,body out there with these machines. Too bad! You'll really like yours once you get it rolling, they're heavy in the right spots imho, and from the numbers, looks like they're from the begining. Good luck, Steve!

Greg Menke · Apr 18, 2006

Norman Machine Tool in downtown Baltimore had an approx 14" gearhead up until the middle of last year or so, sold on ebay, I think I recall the serial # being in the low 4000's as well. I don't know if anyone here got it though. It felt like a nice machine, lots of iron and looked as if it has right sort of heft to it.

I took a few pics of it in 4/2005 when I was up there getting my Sheldon mill;

I think there are a few people on PM with them.

Regards,

Greg

old_dave · Apr 18, 2006

According to my _Serial Number Reference Book_ this would have been built in the late 1930's-early 1940's. (Last serial number for 1935 was 3453, last serial number for 1942 is 4188, no interveneing years listed). Since they probably didn't build many during the last years of the depression; 1936-37-38, into 1939, my guess is your machine was probably built 1941-42. This reference further indicates they built their last lathe in 1987. D.C. Morrison shows on their website that they offer some support for this line.
David

Fender · Apr 18, 2006

Menace, Greg and Dave,
Many thanks for your replies. I was guessing this was from the mid-thirties so I wasn't too far off. The pictures tell me a few more things about it like the spindle mount; I haven't tried to take the chuck off yet.

I'm looking forward to restoring this although it doesn't look like it will take too much work. The biggest issue is the lack of tooling; I need a four-jaw chuck, a faceplate and a better toolpost at the minimum. I do need to remove some surface rust from the lead screw and change the oil in the gearbox. Probably some other things I haven't found yet.

Also I'm more than a little surprised that there is still some support available.

The weight estimate was 2500 lbs; I'm sure it was every bit of that.

Dan (fender)

Greg Menke · Apr 18, 2006

Hey Dan,

Its nice to have both a 3 and 4 jaw chuck handy. The problem with these somewhat obscure lathe's pre-standard spindle mounts is its basically impossible to find backplates already set up for them. Which is not a fundamental problem, it means you have to turn your own from an unmachined backplate. To do that you have to get your existing backplate off and take detailed spindle measurements, then learn a bit about boring and threading.

Assuming your spindle has a smooth portion on the shank, you should be trying for a very snug fit, the threads driving the backplate onto the shank and holding it there. But it shouldn't be so tight that it will seize and require cutting off. I don't know what clearance is specified as I understand it, the fit should be a bit tighter than running fit and a bit looser than a press fit.

The backplate on my American 12" is seized on but good due to other issues and will have to be cut off to test the new backplate- so I'll get 1 try at making a backplate and if its too tight then I'll be boring it out with the Bridgeport...

Another thing to check on your machine is to be sure all oilers aren't painted closed and that they feed oil. If some prev owner used waxy oil, it may have solidified and plugged the passages and wicks (if present)- sometimes plain old crud will do it regardless. Almost every oiler on my ATW was plugged solid and the wicks were so packed off they tore if you bent them. Nasty...

Your lathe looks pretty spiffy as it is. Enjoy!

Regards,

Greg

menace · Apr 19, 2006

fender, my lathes spindle is 2,3/8x6tpi and the inside is a jarno taper, a believe it's a 13. I just built a 2-1 reduction on the motor to lower the speed back closer to what it was originally made for, I got 20rpm low back gear and 510rpm in top speed, and it purrs right along! Mine was made around 1910 I guess it's funny they didn't change much with the bed and carrage/apron. Of course the head and change gears are different. One like yours went one the Bay last week! :cool:

Lumpsmith · Apr 19, 2006

Looks just like mine except mine is green the guy I bought it from painted it. The bed on mine is about 8feet long swing is 16" . My # is 3788. The belt guard on your machine looks just like mine I always thought that it was a "home made" job but it must be factory orignal.I had to adapt the different chucks as only a three jaw came with it,was not a big deal, I made a dummy spindle to match the machine and machined adapters to fit.

Lumpsmith · Apr 19, 2006

I forgot to mention I have a friend who has a flat belt Carroll Jamison no clue what the serial # is tho,it's about the same size as yours.

dirty old man · Apr 19, 2006

Dan, I also have A CJ in my shop, 16" X 60". same layout. I'll have to look today for serial number. Also had one (brand new) like it in Vo-Tech School when I went in '66. They are good machines, somewhat noisey, but they will move some metal. Not a lot of rpm, but you can make up for that with depth of cut and feed rates.
Morrison does offer support, I bought a gear from them.
Dave

Fender · Apr 20, 2006

This is the lathe that went on e-bay last week. I picked it up in Princeton, WV on Friday.
I already have a 12" Atlas and it is fine for smaller work, but this will be a lot better for larger diameters and heavy cuts.
What size motor do these lathes use? I left on vacation Monday and haven't had time to look at the motor plate.
Lumpsmith, I had the same impression about the belt guard. Probably C-J had to whip something up quickly to satisfy a safety regulation.
Dan

Fender · Apr 26, 2006

I got back from vacation today and had another look at the lathe. Will need to soak the spindle with some penetrating oil for awhile before I try to get the chuck off. A MT3 arbor seems to fit the tailstock pretty well, although it is a little chewed up inside. Steve's older C-J has a Jarno taper, so I guess they changed to Morse sometime between the teens and 40's? Lumpsmith and Dave, what tapers do your newer lathes have in the headstock and tailstock?
Thanks, Dan

dirty old man · Apr 26, 2006

Mine has a mt3 in the tailstock,unsure of the headstock taper, haven't checked it.
Sort of got in the habit years ago of chucking a piece of stock and using the compound to turn a 60* incl angle on it for between centers work. I don't have a dog plate either, so I don't have much choice!
Dave

Lumpsmith · Apr 26, 2006

When I got mine the tailstock had a #3 taper but it looked like 40 miles of bad road so I replaced it with a new #4 morse taper extension adapter,those are the adapters used to extend a drill to reach into places that you can't get to with just the machine's normal quill.You see them used on radial arm drill press's mostly.I remachined it to look like the ruined tailstock spindle and it has worked very well.I never was able to find an adapter for the headstock spindle so can't say for sure what it is,but it is not a morse taper. When I change to a different chuck to remove the one on the machine I move the carrage up near the headstock and with the machine in the lowest gear place a short piece of brass stock between the chuck jaw and the slot in the rear of the carrage and then engage the clutch lever and then pull the belts from the motor by hand. The chucks always come off easy this way,you'll need a wooden catch block to keep from mashing your fingers but you probably know that already.

menace · Apr 26, 2006

For changing chucks I use a 3' peice of round wood that just luckily fits thru the spindle. I put it thru the 12", bring the carrage close, tighten the chuck to the wood, set a block I cut to height, and unwind it, all very easy just heavy!

Fender · May 1, 2006

Lumpsmith and Steve, thanks for the chuck removal tips! I was able to get the three-jaw chuck off this weekend using your method.

Spindle looks to be in pretty good shape, 2 3/8 x 8 tpi. The internal taper (jarno?) is kinda weird, the taper begins about 1/2" deep inside the spindle, and then ends about 2 1/2" deep with a larger diameter relief (?). On my Atlas the taper (3MT) begins right at the nose and goes back maybe four inches or so. It looks like the spindle is big enough to hold a 5C collet, so this will be a challenging task to make a collet adapter.

I guess I'm getting a little ahead of myself; I don't even have a phase converter yet!
Dan

Greg Menke · May 1, 2006

If you're thinking of setting up a new backplate, make double-sure of the dimensions of the threads.

I just got my new backplate and chuck on (schwing!), and discovered the 6 tpi thread is not a conventional 60 degree. Its about half the depth and tapered about .030" over approx .7". I don't know what sort of threads CJ used but they might be a bit complex too.

Regards,

Greg

Lumpsmith · May 2, 2006

You can make an adapter for 5c collets that threads on to the spindle so you don't need to worry about what taper is in your spindle,or watch Ebay for a collet chuck they come up often and are fairly cheap. You will have to adapt it to your lathe I have never found any tooling that fit always had to make adapters.The threads on my spindle are standard "V" no taper or anything out of the ordinary,these machines have been around for years and passed through many hands not all of whom were kind, so you'll find all kinds of wierd modifications or repairs. Oh by the way I bought mine in 1972.

Robert Duncan · May 15, 2006

I'll check in. I have one of these lathes also.

Mine is a 16x60, ~1941 vintage. I have a 2HP 3ph motor on mine. The 2 3/8"-8 threaded spindle. Also has a taper attachment.

I did manage to get a backplate and a small faceplate on eBay that fit perfectly. I have a 3-jaw 10" chuck. Tailstock on mine is a #3MT, my spindle seems to hold a #5MT dead center just fine.

If you use the search function for 'jamieson' you will find several postings regarding these machines.

Mine came with the "wrong" final drive gear on the input to the feed gear box. So it would not cut the expected threads.

Carroll-Jamieson Lathe

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