Champion Tool Works 12" Lathe - Carriage Auto Feed - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Drudel:

    Thank you for the good news. You now know a good bit more about the anatomy of your lathe and will be prepared should this sort of thing recur.

    As for toolbits: you mention the toolholders hold the tool bits 'pointing up too much'. The reality is those toolholders were made for using high speed steel tool bits.

    HSS toolbits were the norm for many years. Many of us came up using them. The older lathes really do not have the rpm/surface speed of the work nor the rigidity to handle carbide cutting tools. HSS tool bits are more than adequate for most home shop or hobby work, and even still used to some extent in industry. HSS tool bit blanks are cheap and you can buy a mess of them for little money. The added bonus is you get '2 fer 1', in that you can grind a toolbit at either end, so can grind either end to do some different function. HSS toolbits can be ground freehand on a bench grinder with aluminum oxide wheels, no silicon carbide or diamond wheels needed. If you grind a HSS tool bit so the geometry is right, the exact angles for rake and clearance are really not that critical. You can easily grind turning tools for roughing, finishing, and with a little care, can grind a thread cutting tool bit. If you need to grind a form tool for putting in O ring or retainer ring groove, or a radius (fillet at the 'root' of a shoulder where a smaller diameter meets a larger one), you can do it freehand and finish up with hand oil-stoning.

    A properly ground and stoned HSS tool bit will hog off most steels and work your old lathe to its full capacity or nearly so, and a properly ground and stone finishing tool will give you a finish that does not need any further filing or polishing to 'clean up'.

    I run HSS tool bits for about 98% of what I do in my own machine shop, and only when I have something like a welded surface or rough casting or some particularly tough alloy steel do I use carbide. Old timers back 'in the day' all had coffee cans and cigar boxes as well as drawers in machinist chests filled with HSS tool bits ground for particular jobs. If a HSS tool dulled or was nearly what was needed for another job, it could easily be touched up with an oil stone, or touched up on a grinder and then stoned. Stoning a HSS tool with a small "India Medium Hard" oil stone works wonders for both surface finish as well as tool life.

    If you try to regrind carbide tools (cemented carbide cutting portions brazed to square steel shanks) to work in the tool holder you have, you will have to grind a LOT of carbide on the top surfaces of the tools to get them to where the top surface is approximately level rather than sloped back towards the tool post.

    My personal preference based on many years with older machine tools is to use high speed steel tool bits. Just as you learned a great deal in solving the issues with the power feed clutch on your lathe, learning to grind tool bits is a great 'teacher' in its own right. Your lathe was built a long time ago, well over 100 years ago judging by the style of the carriage crank and finish on the parts as well as design of the apron from what we saw in your youtubes. Back in those days, about all that was available for lathe cutting tools was forged high carbon steel, hardened and tempered. Machinists back in those times routinely forged their own cutting tools and hardened and tempered them, then ground them and stoned them. No tool holders were used, just the 'lantern' style toolpost with rocker, and the cutting tools were forged from bars of high carbon tool steel. Nothing fancy, probably about a 1090 steel- known as a 'plain high carbon steel' (plain = no alloying elements). This type of steel could be quenched in water or brine to harden it, and was brought to forging and hardening temperatures by eye, and tempered by eye as well. Larger machine shops had a full time blacksmith who forged, or re-forged worn, cutting tools and flat drills. Carbide tools have their place, but on this old of a lathe, and with the toolholders you have, I would not use them. For a person starting out in this sort of machine shop work, using very old machine tools, learning to grind a tool bit teaches a great deal as to 'how metal is cut' and is the right type of cutting tooling for your old lathe.

  2. Likes dundeeshopnut, drudel, Hudson liked this post
  3. #22
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    Thank you Joe,
    Yes, my intention is to use the highspeed steel, I just ordered the carbide because I wanted to start with a "known quantity". I will now dig into the "coffee can of bits" that I got for free with the lathe, and start learning how to grind them. The previous operator of this lathe has been gone for 20 years, so I am working from books. I was an apprentice cabinet maker for a while, so I have grinding belts and stones to work with. Thanks very much,
    DR

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by drudel View Post
    SOLVED!

    Thanks everyone for your generosity and help. It turns out I just needed to try to take that knurled knob off and then it exposed the threads.
    Attachment 299184

    The I realized the simplicity of the clutch mechanism.
    See the action in the video below



    Once again, thank you all so very much.
    I made my first chips today!
    I will start another thread regarding the relief angle on modern carbide Lathe Tool Bits as my tool holders point up too much for these modern cutters.

    THANKS!
    Interesting. It works opposite of "convention" (as much as there was one). Most of that style require you to tighten the knob (clockwise) to engage the clutch.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  5. #24
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    I had a similar one that I ended up selling to make room for a CNC machine. I wish I had the room to keep it since it was so solid.

  6. #25
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    This is to the OP and anyone else who may need parts for a Champion 12" lathe. I have many parts I saved from a basket case Champion. I moved them to take pics. They can be had for shipping only. The next person(s) who moves them from my shed will probably throw them in a dumpster when I pass on to the afterlife. A few pics in the next couple of posts to show what is left. There is also a leadscrew with brackets (not pictured). The don't make these parts anymore.

    100_1134.jpg100_1135.jpg100_1136.jpg100_1137.jpg100_1138.jpg

  7. #26
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    A few more pics of stuff. Spindle with bull gear and backgears.


    100_1139.jpg100_1140.jpg100_1141.jpg100_1142.jpg100_1143.jpg

  8. #27
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    A couple more. Even that knurled nut for the friction clutch.

    100_1145.jpg100_1144.jpg

  9. #28
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    Hi Tommy1010,

    Thanks for offering up your extra parts to the Champion Tool Works 12" Lathe.
    Do you happen to have the casting for the Feed rod pulley tensioner?
    Please see pictures below.
    Mine is cracked above the adjustment handle where the tensioning bolt sits.

    Here is a picture of the left side of the Lathe
    lathe-left.jpg
    Here is the Part that is cracked (with my finger on it)
    broken-part.jpg
    Here is the location of the Crack itself
    crack-casting.jpg

    I tried to send these via private message, but the forum would not enable me to do so.

    I am thinking about the clutch assembly as well.
    Do you have the Tailstock by Chance?

    Thanks, DR

  10. #29
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    Here is what I have. A tape measure for you to compare yours to mine.

    100_1146.jpg100_1147.jpg100_1148.jpg100_1149.jpg100_1150.jpg

  11. #30
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    Hey - that's it! Love it!
    Do you have the Tailstock too?

  12. #31
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    No tailstock stuff. Mine has the spring which does?? Your pics don't have the spring. I don't know what the spring is there for.100_1151.jpg

  13. #32
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    I don't know what the spring is there for.
    I'll guess you could put stop collars on the feed rod and turn off the feed (during compression of spring)

  14. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy1010 View Post
    No tailstock stuff. Mine has the spring which does?? Your pics don't have the spring. I don't know what the spring is there for.100_1151.jpg
    Hi, I do that the spring, but its hiding in a cylinder and it is used to disengage the carriage auto feed based on a brass stop collar on the feed rod.

    On another note, some of you asked me to post what I made, so here goes - My first project was to replace a broken Tailstock adjustment bolt and it had a 1/2 x 12tpi thread pattern, which apparently stopped being a standard around 1911. So I made one, and unfortunately, I accidentally made it with a left-hand thread. So I made a second one and it fit like a glove.
    Proud Pictures here:
    first-project.jpg
    first-project-installed.jpg

    Thanks All for the help getting going!

  15. #34
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    Among those parts Tommy1010 has is there a replacement for the apron gear with the broken teeth? I'd love to hear that you are able to replace that, the lathe is a thing of beauty.


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