Cute little T&C grinder
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  1. #1
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    Default Cute little T&C grinder

    This is on Worchester Mass CL.
    I'm guessing Fairbanks is the seller, not the maker.
    Interesting to me that Bangor Me. is listed with all those other bigger cities.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 00r0r_bjysjxmxlcdz_0d009l_1200x900.jpg   00t0t_9wfhmhhvu5iz_0d009l_1200x900.jpg   00g0g_4myhpph1u8qz_09l0d0_1200x900.jpg   00f0f_9mmxmmaou27z_0d009l_1200x900.jpg   t-c-tag.jpg  


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    It is an F.E. Wells & Son of Greenfield.
    Missing the cabinet base.
    I think they became part of Greenfield Tap & Die.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynah View Post
    This is on Worchester Mass CL.
    I'm guessing Fairbanks is the seller, not the maker.
    Interesting to me that Bangor Me. is listed with all those other bigger cities.
    Who said it WAS Bangor, Maine?

    Bangor is the oldest city in all of Gwynedd... Northwest...... Wales.

    ..or County Down. Northern Ireland, suburban Belfast?


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    Thanks for that info Rob, interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Lang View Post
    Missing the cabinet base.

    Rob
    I think the base is there.
    In one of the pictures, I see a base, with a wood top and a bench vise on it.
    This might be the original base.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Lang View Post
    I think the base is there.
    In one of the pictures, I see a base, with a wood top and a bench vise on it.
    This might be the original base.

    Rob
    Good eye Rob! … what year do you suspect?

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    Nice find.. does the wheel head turn a bit on an angle?

    do use decent spindle oil and be sure it is going into bearinga.

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    I don't own it, I just post things like this for future searchers.
    And Rob identified it. Someone is really going to appreciate that some day.
    Vintage Machinery is pretty good for an archive, but nothing can touch this site for metal working tools.

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    It could have been the version without the base.

    no-162-cutter-reamer-grinder.jpg

    Irby
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails no-162-cutter-reamer-grinder.jpg  

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    The base would have looked like this.

    no-160-cutter-reamer-grinder.jpg

    Irby
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails no-160-cutter-reamer-grinder.jpg  

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    Not the same machine. Note that the table on the OP's machine is adjustable for angle, and the advertisement directly says that the table does not swivel

    That may not, however, mean that the stand is different, could have the same stand, depends if the grinder is different in terms of the mounting in some way that affects the stand.

    The stand in the OP's picture (with the vise) looks different, but we don't know if it is turned around, etc.

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    I think the term about swiveling the table in the add may refer more to the complete table swiveling around a post to us the open side of cup wheels rather than the top table its self swiveling a few degrees to grind a tapered cutter.
    I happened to have a link to this example of a more modern or more complex Greenfield mentioned earlier , saved in my files but it is typical of several makes from that era like Cincinnati and some others where the column with the knee and table would rotate around a central post.
    Greenfield Universal Tool & Cutter Grinder
    Jim

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    Here's a picture from the catalog that shows the stand again and this time the top. It's for the more elaborate grinder, but I imagine the base for this grinder attaches the same. Notice how much smaller it is than the base of the grinder itself. I don't think the stand off to the side in Tim's warehouse is the stand to this grinder. You can also see three attachment holes in the base of this grinder for the stand and the stand off to the side seems to have four attachment holes.

    BTW, I agree with Jim Christie on what the catalog ad probably means about the table swiveling.



    Irby
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails floor-plan-grinders.jpg  

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    That makes it clear, but the # 162 does not even look like the table moves.

    The Greenfield has the same general setup as shown in the last post. I'll agree they mean that.

    I have a Greenfield unit with the described setup.. The Greenfield rotating table is not super accurate. Mine is a US version, with square base, and a wheel on the table support to facilitate rotating it.

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    Qt: [ The Greenfield rotating table is not super accurate.]
    Brand spanking new a rotating table is pretty accurate with many scraped in but with a little wear they ae no longer as accurate as a ground-in magnetic chuck.
    The ability to angle is very important for angle grinding and tweaking a small amount of angle so not needing to loosen a fixture and lose accuracy. One example is the needed adding roll (tilting down) the edge to add a secondary clearance to a stager tooth mill cutter. when you roll (tilting) down the cutting edge straightness of secondary land is no longer straight and the rotating table needs to be bumped a half degree or so. Yes, and then rolling up back to the primary land the table needs to be bumped back.

    For example, a 6” mill cutter OD edge would be set .325" below center to get a 6* clearance, and then to add a 20* clearance secondary it would be set .720" below center. That change of adding more roll would make the intersect of the two angles look bigger on one side and not be parallel with the top edge so making a poor-looking cutter. The rotating table is bumped to correct this defect.

    For grinding the cutting end of between centers ground reamers and going from primary to secondary this same effect happens and the table rotation feature is bumped perhaps a half degree to make the intersect land straight, for a nice looking reamer.

    Another function of the rotating table is that often the rotating post under the table is offset, so rotating the table might give 2” additional distance from the wheel so adding capacity to the machine. Yes, one has to go far to one end with long travel to miss hitting the wheel head collum.

    Best reamers are made and sharpened between centers, not out of a work head.

    Also like a lathe whose bed becomes a little worn and so no longer turns parts dead straight, the grinder's rotating table can tweak a little angle to correct machine error.

    If this seems confusing then one should free download the Cincinnati TC grinder operators manual and read it through as one would read How to Run a lathe.

    Agree, any of the old-school TC grinder manuals have much the same but the Cincinnati manual is one offered as a free download...*but still send some bucks to Vintage Machine as a donation.

    Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. (Milacron) - Publication Reprints - Cincinnati #1 Tool Cutter Grinder Operators Instruction | VintageMachinery.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Qt: [ The Greenfield rotating table is not super accurate.]
    Brand spanking new a rotating table is pretty accurate with many scraped in but with a little wear they ae no longer as accurate as a ground-in magnetic chuck.
    ...................
    Not the sub-table angling, but the system to angle the entire table system around the wheelhead. The height may change a bit as the table and support is moved, and the angle would have to be set by a protractor, as the Greenfield, at least, has no degree scale.

    Those older grinders have to use that system. The wheelhead cannot be turned due to the drive from overhead via a belt.

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    I think the wheel head did turn on some line-drive old machines, I remember one old-timer telling me that sometimes it was difficult to turn the belt drive to swing the wheel head. I wish I had talked more with him to understand how that worked.

    A couple of old clunkers we had the grinder works was mounter to the collum, it seemed the whole works could turn about. I never used them because they were worn out and we had Cincinnati #1 and #2s that made the old wore-out machines obsolete.
    line shaft cincinnati #1 tc grinder - Bing

    It was and is very important to be able to set a cutter end toward a cup wheel in order to grind the likes of an end mill, reamer, mill cutter, and the likes.

    I did run a machine like this (might be the same one)that we used strictly for a cut-off machine with having a parting wheel. with a simple compound vise, it was very handy.
    line shaft cincinnati #1 tc grinder - Bing

    Yes the motor was added, as originally this type of grinder was designed for the overhead line shaft, before my time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I think the wheel head did turn on some line-drive old machines, I remember one old-timer telling me that sometimes it was difficult to turn the belt drive to swing the wheel head. I wish I had talked more with him to understand how that worked.
    <snip>
    I used to own an old Diamond Machine Co. T&C grinder with a wheel head that could turn.


    The belt went over both wheel head pulleys and I guess one pulley (probably the back one) was set more or less directly under the countershaft drive pulley.


    The countershaft - the large diameter pulley drove the wheel head.



    Irby
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails diamond_tool_cutter_grinder_1.jpg   diamond_tool_cutter_grinder_3.jpg   diamond_tool_cutter_grinder_9.jpg  

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