D L Harris lathe. Springfield,Ma.

I am starting this new thread so it can be easily found when doing a search.More information can be found under " interesting pre 1900 lathe by Maltese hunter under this same forum.Thanks again Maltese!
I am extremely grateful to Robert Lang for his links to D L Harris history and Springfield tool co as well. Aparently Chester VanHorn designed and patented his "elevating" tool holder and Copes book shows such a lathe (made by Springfield tool co in Ma) equipped with one.Robert Lang has found a connection between Springfield tool and D L Harris and you can too if you follow the links he kindly provided in "interesting pre 1900 lathe".
I intend to keep this lathe as original as possible but it will be a work in progress and may take awhile.As can be seen in the pictures I'll be posting the lathe has a few issues but nothing that can't be easily replicated.I am recovering from a hernia operation so will post the pictures over the next couple of days.....No,the lathe didn't give me the hernia(!)
First I'll give you the pictures showing the overall lathe then followup with some detail pics of its various parts and "issues".
Oh! Joe in NH...I also deeply appreciate your insight and comments regarding the Harris.I also think the old Shepard lathe you have is marvelous...it is lovely.I hope the Harris will look half as good as yours when cleaned up and oiled.Your Shepard is a beautiful lathe.

The following pictures show the mechanism which ingages the leadscrew to operate the carriage.A couple of these were taken from beneath the lathe.
One of the issues I spoke of is regarding the bracket which the leadscrew activating lever pivots on.It appears this is a replacement fabricated from steel plate.I'm sure it was a casting originally.If you look closely on the bottom of the lathe bed you will see where it has been planed to provide a bearing surface for this bottom bracket (or saddle) to ride against helping to maintain the top saddle alignment to the bedways.The lever difinitely is original.The leadscrew itself shows no preceptable wear at all....maybe a later replacement?
You can also see the tailstock clamp block has been replaced and the ugly handwheel has got to go....funny thing about these early machines.If something has been replaced it really stands out.There is a STYLE that goes along with the vintage.

A great lathe. I am inclined to think this is a Civil War period machine. I notice that it has the high arched headstock and tailstock that suggest the parts were originally designed to be part of a chain lathe. In fact, there are several very early features. It is slightly more developed than one I have, which I believe to be pre-CW. I'd give it a date of approximately 1860-1865... There was a huge amount of tool building during the war and I strongly suspect that by the end of the war styles had already come around to what we generally think of as the "1870s & 1880s" style machines.

A very good save!

Machine tool envy. Its a disease, not a choice!

You're a lucky man! That lathe is SINGULAR with the emphasis on sing. (you should be singing an aria if you like old machines.)

You'll want to be careful of the colors. While the common conception of a civil war era lathe is green (so called "forest green") in reality that was the newest thing on the block. More commonly in the years before the Civil War machine tools were styled in Gothic or Corinthian columns, and the machine itself painted to simulate "stone." They were into "classic forms." Greys, whites, and alabaster colors were predominate in the 1840s and early 1850s. With the approach of the Civil War, the palette became a bit more varied with "earth colors" coming to the fore. Forest green was certainly among these earth colors although some makers used a deep red (a bit darker than Chinese red) for contrast color, or maybe all by itself. Pratt & Whitney immediately after the Civil War painted their machines either forest green or red, in about equal numbers.

My Shepard, Lathe & Co. lathe is currently forest green primarily, but I can see that a lot of this is not original. Inside the legs and part of the apron appear to be a sort of light tan color (think earth tone) or maybe even beige. I haven't done a lot of investigation on colors (despite a request of another Shepard, Lathe & Co. machine owner) but it wouldn't surprise me that the majority of the lathe was originally done in this "victorian tan."

I earlier opined that your lathe is probably among the 100 oldest lathes extant in the country. My S,L & Co. just barely makes it onto this list, but yours is most certainly there.

One suggestion. Edit/reset your pix using an image resizer to bring the image to 800 x 1200 (medium size) if possible. When the pix is too large, it pushes everything off on the RH side of the page and you have to use the cursor bar on the screen to catch all the words.

Why is it all the good stuff shows up out west? (kidding, of course.)

Joe

Joe is absolutely right- Lester, please resize the pics in the images you've linked, as-is they are impractical to view for those w/ 1024x768 classes of displays. If your photo hosting service permits, create approx 800x600 sized copies of the images (using new names) and I'll edit the links so the small images are used instead.

Thanks,

Greg

I took the pix off by myself (for reference later) and it appears that the white on the lathe bed itself was put there later. All that cracking that you see means "cheap paint." Meanwhile the green underneath is in pretty good shape.

The ivory legs and apron and tailstock parts appear to be the original color. Again, in pretty good shape except for the cracked places on the tailstock.

At least that's my look from 2500 miles away...

Interesting that replacement lower saddle plate. He even made the front "loop" so the operator could put a bolt in there to hold the half nuts "engaged."

One of the things we moderns forget is that in 1860, a lathe set up for threading was for THREADING. When the first cut was made from right to left, the entire lathe was stopped and then everything was "backed up" to begin the cut anew. Once the half nuts were engaged, they were not undone until the thread was cut. Putting a bolt in the lever arm allowed this to happen.

One of the discussions of that age was how fast to make the "return stroke" of the lathe. Some opined that the lathe should reverse (left to right motion of the carriage) at twice the speed used for threading (right to left motion.) This was done by varying the size of the pulleys at the main driveshaft with one being 2x the other.

Oh, and those lubricators on the headstock are an 1880s convention. The originals would have been decorative "caps" on top of short pipes. Don't discard those "Crown" (I think?) Lunkenheimer oilers, however. That particular model is much in demand among the engine set - typically sell for $30-$50 on ebay - if not more.

Joe

Thank you Greg! Sorry...I'm a lot more comfortable around rust than I am posting pictures.What a pain to have to jump back and forth just to view a pic.
Joe.That is very interesting what you wrote about the finishes on early machinery.The legs on this machine....sorta a light gray almost white color.This material is almost like a filler material.The casting is very smooth and the material isn't flaking anywhere.But it is old and I believe original to the machine.I wonder if this is something left of the original finish.
I removed the builders plate to see if there was any green like the photos show.No green but sort of a very light tan as you describe.I thought it was a primer of sort but it is a very thin layer.Tomorrow I'll remove the plate and rub a little light machine oil on it to bring out the color....Than hopefully post a picture of the right size!
I have an original Samson gas engine made about 1900.Most of the original red paint fell off years ago but the filler is a dark material.PM has discussed this before...mixture of lampblack linseed oil and other concoctions.This was probably made "in shop".the later Samson engines used more of a gray material which seems a little harder than the black.probably purchased comercially.However the lathe shows no evidence of filler except possibly the legs...Of course I intend to keep as much of the original (?) green as possible.
I found traces of red on the backgear where the fancy fillets were turned to make it "look nice".Other than these few traces I find no other indications of color.Would the front of the apron and sides of the tailstock been painted? I am wondering because these look to be polished under all the whitish gray...I'm pretty sure that was done later on.
I'm also wondering if that "nib" handwheel on the cross slide might have been part of the original Van Horn toolpost.
I'll post some more pictures tomorrow.Anything in particular?

Maybe pix of the outboard side of the headstock? Also the half nuts area to the rear of the carriage? A closer topview of the tailstock where the nuts hold the "T" to the support aprons?

Rob Lang had a patent drawing of a typical tailstock of this period showing the unique method of assembly. Maybe he can pull this up for us to look at? This tailstock may be done this way?

The "only operator of this machine" nameplate on the tailstock is a unique touch and may be original to the machine? Meanwhile, I'll try to get some pix of the correct oil covers to show you. It's hard since I'm in Florida right now on business (and 11:19 p.m. local time and I have to get up at 5 a.m. tomorrow - sleep is impossible right now.)

Joe

Hi Joe.
I'll get thosepics tomorrow for you.I'll also post the tailstock disasembled.
The operators plate on the tailstock....cast alumunum! I really wish it were brass.
One thing I forgot to ask.I find it odd the "t" slots on the upper part of the
carriage are really dovetailed rather than tee,d.It seems these would be easily broken if too much torque was applied to the hold downs.
Also the paint finish on the compound appears to be the same as the front of the carriage and tailstock trim.This made me believe the paint was later because the compound obvoiusly isn't original to the machine.
I think I'll take some white vinegar and see if I can leach out some of the rust spots on the legs and tailstock then see what they look like.
Also Your Shepard of Ma is such a close match to this lathe....it amazes me the similarity of these Mass built lathes.Almost all seem to use the same leg pattern.When you get a chance I would love to see more pictures of your Shepard.(or direct me to a link) ! Thanks!

I have more pix on Photobucket, but I don't have my username and login handy. Let me check home tonight and I'll get back to you.

Meanwhile, check out the pix at early metal lathe which is yet another of those "hundred earliest lathes," probably time concurrent with my S,L & Co. And this one not made in Worcester, or even Massachusetts. Made (probably) by New Haven Manufacturing it shows how influential that Thayer & Houghton lathe at the 1853 Worcester Mechanics Association Exhibition was. That T&H lathe was sort of the "Windows 95" of it's age.

OBTW, there is a mid 1850s T&H lathe embodying the "new design" at the Wilkinson Mill Machine Shop down in Pawtucket, RI. It's a fairly large swing, perhaps 24" or 30" but surprisingly does not have a lead screw (?) I think there is a single "end on" pix of this on the 'net but I don't have time to run it down right now.

This same shop has a Shepard, Lathe & Co. chain drive lathe that possibly pre-dates the 1853 Exhibition. It has the same tailstock and headstock as my later S,L& Co. lathe but differs in most other parts. To include "golden calf" legs (no cross stretchers.) No pix on the 'net though.

I'll get back to you on the photobucket pix when I know more.

Joe

Here are a few more photos of the headstock "outboard" side.They are the best I could do without physically moving the lathe.Please comment about the change gears (or lack of) and hangers.
I'm not sure if the carriage feed rod is suposed to be gear or pulley driven? The finish behind the nameplate is sort of a light tan and very thin....almost a wiping of some sort.I rubbed WD40 lightly over the left hand side to see if the color changed...not much.There is no green under this color.
The one view of the tailstock shows the clamp ring inside the barrel.The other views are self explanetory.
The leadscrew needs to be removed to see how the half nut ingages.However it appears there is only a "bottom half" of the so called half nut which ingages the screw.It moves vertically in a slot cut inside the rear half nut housing bracket being activated by the the linkage and lever assembly.
Also the carriage feed assembly has the two "worms" to determine direction of travel.
I guess the next step is the cleaning process...always fun!8

Last few pictures.

Could you resize the first pictures please.
My internet collapsed while loading up.
This is a real problem for some of us, to big and you can't use the internet for the next half hour.
Somebody please help.
Bernhard.

I think there are four S,L& Co. pix at my photobucket acount. See Pictures by JoeInNH - Photobucket Anyone shouldn't need a password or anything for access I'm pretty sure. A pix of a similar Shepard, Lathe & Co. lathe from QVEA (Quinebaug Valley Engineers Association) is there too. It's slightly shorter, probably a year or two earlier, and doesn't have a scrap of paint left on it. They've well oiled the lathe for preservation.

I have the correct bearing caps/covers on my circa 1874 Lathe & Morse Tool Co. lathe (which is a near but later copy of the 1860 S,L&Co. lathe which is missing the caps) The later lathe is similar - it too has a rear mounted lead screw (not that common by 1874) with the luxury of quarter turn lever actual half nuts. It's amazing how much more "beefy" the later lathe is compared to the early one. You can see in the two lathes the "familial history" (probably the reason I acquired the later lathe) but they differ in details and perfection of execution.

Joe

The photo of the tag on the tailstock about the "man in charge" is now on every lathe at work!
If only we can figure out just who is the man in charge.

That placard is fantastic. Somebody ought to use KPotter's placard making buddy and cook up a bunch of them...

Anyhow, thank you for the resized pics Lester, the thread is much more legible.

Regards,

Greg

That placard on the tailstock says a lot about how early machinists felt about their machines.They took great pride and care maintaining the equipment they used in their trade.This old Harris has some beautiful repair work and upgrades done to it.It was highly valued during its working life.
The large compound gear on the back shaft finally needed repair.What they did was source a gear with the same dimensions and bored it out until it looked like a ring gear on a flywheel.Then the old teeth were turned off the backgear shaft and the new "ring gear" was shrunk onto the newly turned "hob".Three dutch keys were fitted as an added percaution.You can't even see the repair...only the dutch keys give it away.The top bearing cap fractured across the oil hole.They vee'd it perfectly completely to the bottom and braised it.It was filed and chamfered.All you see is a perfect golden vee when viewing the top cap.A small but very lovely repair.
These old machine tools were valued so highly by their owners.They were expensive and very dear to buy.They began the process of bringing men out of the dark ages and into a time when back breaking labor was no longer their master.That terrible drudgery of doing everything by your back...Machine tools began to free men from sheer labor and for the first time in history gave them time to dream....and find pleasure in living.
Think of it.Drawing water from wells in buckets to pumping water by power.Kerosene lamps to incadescent light.From horses to tractor.From exhaustion to hope.A standard of living all owed to machine tools and the devices they helped create.There was a generation who realized how significant a role these machines played in their rise from toilsome labor.
I remember one summer when my mom washed clothes for seven kids on a scrub board.There was no money for a new (or old) washer and she washed everyday....until her knuckles were bloody.I can't understand why she sang while scrubbing but she did.I'll never forget how joyful and grateful she was to finally get a washing machine again.
I think it it a precious gift to be able to see the lifes of people woven into these early machines.If you're lucky you can hear these machines whisper a story about humanity and its desire to rise from mindless toil so they could achieve a more noble and pleasant way of life.To me every machine which is built with pride is a tribute to all those who came before and suffered under the yoke of soul crushing toil.
I don't know...maybe I'm meandering about some personal feelings now which may not apply to this thread.I guess I'm trying to say there is much more than just ornate castings and fine workmanship represented in these early American built machine tools.Realizing what they accomplished is just as important as knowing what they are.Out of the cupola and into the mold poured not only cast iron but the hopes of men who dreamed of a better way of life not only for themselves but for their decendents as well.

Yup. You came to the right place.

You're gonna have a cellar full of this stuff - if you don't already.

Joe

I've been working pretty steadily on getting the Harris cleaned up and it's starting to look pretty good.I will post some detail pictures next week of the carraige and half nut mechanism.There is a cone clutch in the carriage to ingage the gear train.Interesting!
In the mean time I am requesting additional information.I have finally stopped feeling overwhelmed at the sheer number of lathes illustrated in Copes book and now understand the great similarity between lathes built by different manufacturers in Worcester Mass.I was hopeing by studying Lathe & Morse and Shepard lathes that they would answer a few questions I have regarding the Harris.
I didn't have much luck determining the change gear set up and if I'm missing an additional gear train bracket.It seems there should be a number of gears according to the threading tag attached to the headstock.I would sure appreciate a few pictures of Worcester lathe change gear mounts and their arrangement from the early years of lathe manufacture.
Does anyone know of a surviving example of a Harris planer or lathe or drillpress besides this lathe? How about a surviving Ma built Springfield Lathe?
Now I believe Robert Lang is correct in saying this Harris had the Van Horn patented elevating tool post.I have the patent drawings but they are devoid of style or characteristic.Does anyone have a lathe fitted with this toolpost? I really need to see a picture.
Also what sort of gibs were use on the early Ma crossfeed assemblys? I ask this because the compound now fitted has a long cast iron tapered key which I understand is not "period".It was adjusted by a screw on one end pushing it deeper into the cross slide.
No chuck or faceplate came with the lathe.I have a small chuck backplate full of holes but with good internal nose threads.It is threaded 1.710 x 7 tpi...was this a standard size for the day? I need to know which chuck to look for.I want to fit a period chuck and need recommendation as to the most likely manufacturer.
I need to find a period tailstock handle which looks like the ball handle on the carraige.Somewhere around .625 bore...I can bush if needed.In fact I can use two of these in case the "nib" handle isn't original.That still to be determined! I also am looking for a handful of the old handforged carbon tool bits in somewhat usable condition.
The bottom saddle plate which has been fabricated in steel plate needs to go.I'll make a pattern and have one cast in iron at Sunset foundry.In all my searching in Copes book I didn't find any lathe which had the leadscrew disconnect lever mounted beneath the carriage on the lower saddle like the Harris.In fact on all those rear mounted leadscrew lathes illustrated I found no clue as to how the leadscrew nut was ingaged.Did most of these lathes use a halfnut that was just ingaged by hand and locked into place with a nut? Wouldn't that involve going behind the lathe and making this adjustment? A picture would help me tremendously to understand what was typical or standard.
Is there any other lathes that used a bottom saddle plate working against bottom "ways" (on the lathe bed) to provide ridgid support to the top carriage saddle? The Harris seems unique in this respect.
One last question.If you note the "tee" slots cut into the carriage you will see they are actually dovetailed...not tee'd.Tee'd slots I can understand because they are useful for clamping odd work to the carriage.But it seems dovetails would be weak...the geometry doesn't seem to lend strength to their design.They are rough cast dovetails...not cut.Could anyone shed light on this? Perhaps they were for another purpose?
If anyone has any pieces they think would work and look right on the Harris I certainly would like to hear from you.Thank you!

Some of the early rear leadscrew machines did not have half nuts at all. A solid nut that resided on the lead screw would be bolted to the carriage when threads needed to be cut, and unbolted when feeding the carriage by hand or via the feed rod.

Andy