Discontinued sleeves for old tractors

I'm thinking seriously about turning out some sleeves for a model NLA..............been searching some places, looks like centrifugal cast pipe is the way to go? Any other input?

Have you tried Melling cylinder sleeves ? Melling has a parts-lookup that includes a lot of tractor manufacturers including names like Oliver and other defunct manufacturers. Melling will also make sleeves to order.

As for making sleeves from centrifugally cast iron pipe, this is reminiscent of the late Burt Munro, 'The World's Fastest Indian'. Munro, operating on next to no budget, used old cast iron gas main pipe for material for his cylinder sleeves. Munro's reasoning was that the iron pipe had been in the ground for many years, so was likely quite dimensionally stable.

Regarding the use of centrifugally cast iron pipe, the issue is the type of iron used in the pipe vs the type of iron needed for cylinder sleeves. Centrifugally cast iron pipe is usually a 'ductile iron'. How this would hold up for wear may be an issue. Ductile iron is fairly soft. Cylinder sleeve iron is likely a high strength iron and somewhat harder to resist wear from the piston rings.

Ductile iron pipe is likely cheap at the price, assuming you can find a piece with workable inner and outer diameters. The machining of a cylinder sleeve could be tricky. The sleeve manufacturers finish the sleeves by precision grinding internally and externally. Trying to make sleeves on a lathe can be done, but a person would need to make some fixturing to hold the pipe during turning and boring operations. A large capacity steady rest might have to be made up for this job. The inner diameter could be finished using a 'box hone', and this would get the bore finished to required inner diameter as well as putting on the 'cross hatch' surface finish for seating the piston rings.

How well ductile iron pipe compares to the type of cast iron used in engine cylinder sleeves is something I can't answer. Burt Munro, using old gas main pipe, was likely using a gray cast iron made in cupola furnaces. In Munro's day, the old gas main pipe was a fairly pure cast iron with little or no steel scrap added to the melts. This was typical of the cupola furnace iron. Once electric furnaces took over for the cupola furnaces, it became necessary to add a certain percentage of scrap steel to each melt in order for some types of electric furnaces to function. This changed the properties of the cast iron a good bit. I tend to think that cylinder liners may have been cast from an alloy of cast iron with some chromium added to give better wear resistance.

L.A. Sleeve will make smallish quantities of any sleeve you want, cheap. Some people do complain about them being a bit soft (See Michaels, Joe, above) but for the price, and considering your tractor won't be seeing 100,000 miles, worth a look ?

EmanuelGoldstein said:

L.A. Sleeve will make smallish quantities of any sleeve you want, cheap. Some people do complain about them being a bit soft (See Michaels, Joe, above) but for the price, and considering your tractor won't be seeing 100,000 miles, worth a look ?

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LA Sleeve is my go to. I have them in my big bore stroker Triumph Trident

If what you need can't be modified from a commercially available sleeve then DuraBar G2 tubes make a great start for a custom sleeve.

I have little experience with engine cylinders and given the complications that can arise in making them I would think that the advise by the previous posters to try some of the custom makers is worth considering .
I had some experience with Dura Bar solid continuous cast iron that was very good and uniform and made to a known grade or standard.
Continuous Cast Iron Bar Stock Leader and Steel Alternative | Dura-Bar
They also make tubes for sleeves for engines that may well be the same or similar to the custom makers mentioned earlier.
https://www.dura-bar.com/getmedia/2...00bf2c07ae66/dura-tube-product-sheet-0519.pdf
I would imagine with orders for large quantities they perhaps cast an alloy to the engine maker's specifications .
There may be other companies that make the same or similar products but Dura Bar is the only one I am familiar with.
Jim

Dry thinwall sleeves arent a problem,but a lot of old tractor motors had wet sleeves .Sometimes these are thick enough to thin sleeve ,but generally they have other problems like corrosion and cavitation damage.

It hasn't been stated what tractor or engine we are talking about. That would certainly narrow the "search" down.

dundeeshopnut said:

It hasn't been stated what tractor or engine we are talking about. That would certainly narrow the "search" down.

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Model NLA. per the OP.

No Longer Available parts are very difficult to come by. They stop producing parts for this tractor every day.

NAA Fords are quite common however.

moonlight machine said:

LA Sleeve is my go to. I have them in my big bore stroker Triumph Trident

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I would second LA Sleeve. I got a sleeve made for my TD9 with no problems. They took the dimensions and have them in their system. They were easy to work with and were genuinely interested in old out of stock stuff.

I have run LA Sleeves in the worst imaginable (2 stroke watercraft) and the sleeves have never been a failure point. Now the pistons, crank bearings, rods, cases, head.... lol

The NLA stands for no longer available....................the Dura bar "pipe" was the top choice, at 600+ dollars, should render 6 sleeves, making it somewhat affordable, If you don't count my labor, not doing it for profit, fortunately.

Will try some of the suggested vendors, they could knock them out much quicker than my little operation could

rj1939 said:

The NLA stands for no longer available....................the Dura bar "pipe" was the top choice, at 600+ dollars, should render 6 sleeves, making it somewhat affordable, If you don't count my labor, not doing it for profit, fortunately.

Will try some of the suggested vendors, they could knock them out much quicker than my little operation could

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Sorry, that's what I thought NLA stood for too! [Also known as SOL. lol]

I got some thicker sleeve material years ago from Versnick Mill Supply, but can no longer find them

Need an expert opinion,but from what Ive seen the nodular irons arent suitable replacements for plain grey cast iron.....Ive seen several bearing fails where nodular was used for availability to replace a cast iron component.......Common belief is that the flake graphite structure of CI is self lubricating,which nodular carbon may not be.

I have built sleeves for high powered pulling tractors. Centrifugal casted ductil iron is the go to. If your wall requires .200 thickness for the cylinder you usually start with a casting of about .500 to .600 wall this will get you a very uniform material from the center of the casting. Removing half from the outside and half from inside.
Power bore sleeves in oh also is a manufacturer. As far as strength a std cast sleeve of .250 wall will split at around 1000 hp on a 466 ci motor where a ductil sleeve of .150 wall will hold 2500 hp + on same engine. 4.562 bore size


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It would still be rather helpful knowing the make and model of the tractor. There are a lot of resources for old tractors out there and other folks may know of a source for sleeves that you haven't found yet.
I recently went through a long search for upper seals on the steering motor on my 1966 Ford tractor. They were a dealer only item ($185 for the pair) but have been NLA for a while. With enough sleuthing I discovered that the seals from a 1968 Camero PS steering box are identical and readily available from Napa for under $10.

Ultradog MN said:

It would still be rather helpful knowing the make and model of the tractor. There are a lot of resources for old tractors out there and other folks may know of a source for sleeves that you haven't found yet.
I recently went through a long search for upper seals on the steering motor on my 1966 Ford tractor. They were a dealer only item ($185 for the pair) but have been NLA for a while. With enough sleuthing I discovered that the seals from a 1968 Camero PS steering box are identical and readily available from Napa for under $10.

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Farmall F-20............The original bore was 3.750.............overbore 4.0
I've got a 4 inch bore, so it is at the limit............if it was still original bore, I could likely find a piston slightly larger that I could make work, they have a tall compression distance, so that adds to the problem